Dr Abdul Qadeer Khan's Interview with "The Guardian"

Disgraced atomic scientist disowns confession
· Father of Pakistan's bomb rejects smuggling claim
· Khan defiant in first talk to western media since 2004

Listen:

FK Media System

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

# Declan Walsh in Islamabad
# The Guardian,
# Friday May 30 2008

For four years Abdul Qadeer Khan, the father of Pakistan's nuclear bomb, has lived in the shadows, confined to his Islamabad home since a tearful televised confession in which he admitted selling nuclear technology to Iran, North Korea and Libya. But yesterday the 76-year-old scientist returned to the spotlight with a bold new twist: that he had not meant a word of his earlier admission.

In his first western media interview since 2004, Khan said the confession had been forced upon him by President Pervez Musharraf. "It was not of my own free will. It was handed into my hand," he told the Guardian. More worryingly, he swore never to cooperate with investigators from the International Atomic Energy Agency, despite persistent fears that nuclear technology traded by his accomplices could fall into terrorist hands.

"Why should I talk to them?" he said. "I am under no obligation. We are not a signatory to the NPT [nuclear non-proliferation treaty]. I have not violated international laws." He said details of his clandestine nuclear supply network were "my internal affair and my country's affair".

Despite numerous requests from the IAEA and the US government, Pakistan has refused access to Khan, who is still considered a national hero. A spokesman at the UN watchdog's headquarters in Vienna declined to respond to his comments.

Until this week Khan had been unseen and largely unheard since his February 2004 appearance on state television, in which he said he had hawked the country's nuclear know-how abroad. He offered his "deepest regrets and unqualified apologies". Since then Khan has been confined to his villa below the Margalla Hills in Islamabad, where he lives with his wife, Henny. He was initially subjected to tight restrictions. Telephone calls were monitored, internet access was forbidden and visitors were turned away by soldiers camped at his gate. He was allowed to leave the house in August 2006 only for a cancer operation in Karachi, which was successful.

But as Musharraf's powers have ebbed over the past year, so have the ties on Khan been loosened. First he was allowed to have lunch with close friends, then last month he gave his first interview from his house arrest to a local Urdu language newspaper. Now he hopes that the newly elected prime minister, Yousaf Raza Gilani, will set him free.


"As long as you are living there is always hope," he said, adding that he would wait for pressing economic and political crises to pass. In reality, he may be waiting for Musharraf to be forced out.

Yesterday the military dismissed speculation, prompted by changes in the army command, that Musharraf was about to quit as president. "A section of press is trying to sensationalise routine functional matters," said a spokesman.

Khan has emerged as Pakistan celebrates the 10th anniversary of the 1998 test that catapulted the volatile nation into the nuclear club. Speaking by telephone, he displayed the mix of defiant nationalism and religious ardour that has endeared him to many Pakistanis.

Reports that nuclear technology was smuggled abroad were "western rubbish", he said, and unfavourable accounts of his life were "**** piles". He brusquely dismissed nicknames such as "the Merchant of Menace" from a Time magazine cover.

"It doesn't bother me at all. They don't like our God, they don't like our prophet, they don't like our holy book, the Qur'an. So how could they like me?" he said.

He dismissed reports that he owned 43 houses in Islamabad, had many bank accounts and owned a $10m hotel in Timbuktu, Mali. "The journalists should have gone and seen - it was an eight-room mud-brick house where the poor people reside," he said, referring to the latter. Asked if he was rich he answered: "Never was, never will be."

International nuclear investigators and the Pakistani government paint a very different picture. In 2005, Musharraf confirmed that Khan had supplied North Korea with centrifuges used to enrich uranium. This week the IAEA board received further confirmation linking Pakistan with Iran's controversial nuclear programme.

Khan said yesterday that nuclear technology was freely available in the west to Iran or North Korea. "They were supplying to us, they were supplying to them ... [to] anyone who could pay," he said.

But for all his defiant talk, one subject remains out of bounds for Khan. Supporters claim he was made a scapegoat for Pakistani generals involved in nuclear trading. Khan refuses to discuss the issue. "I don't want to talk about it. Those things are to forget about," he said.

He denied speculation he had hidden evidence of military collusion with his daughter, Dina, who lives in London. "MI6 has spoken to my daughter, they have been to her house. I did not keep any official papers in my house or anywhere," he said.

Khan directed Pakistan's nuclear enrichment programme for 25 years. Born in pre-partition India - his family moved to Pakistan after 1947 - his passion for developing a nuclear bomb was driven by hatred of his country of birth.

Khan is worshipped as a hero at home, but the former CIA director George Tenet described him as "at least as dangerous as Osama bin Laden", and fears of the damage wreaked by his smuggling network were realised when North Korea exploded a nuclear device in October 2006.

In Musharraf's 2006 memoir, he said he sacked Khan after learning that he was "up to mischief".

Khan blames this on the "self-seekers and sycophants" around Musharraf, who had allowed Pakistan to become a "banana republic".
Backstory

The quest for a Pakistani nuclear bomb was launched by Benazir Bhutto's father, Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, in 1972. "You men here will make it for me and for Pakistan," he told a secret meeting of scientists and generals. Bhutto's motive was to counter India's more developed programme. His secret asset was metallurgist AQ Khan who, while working in a Dutch nuclear laboratory, smuggled secrets home. Khan returned to head the programme in 1976. Pakistan exploded its first nuclear device in 1998. The army has an estimated 50 nuclear warheads.

[NoToRi0uS]

'Why should I talk to the IAEA?'

The following are extracts from an telephone interview conducted yesterday by the Guardian's Pakistan correspondent, Declan Walsh, with the father of the country's nuclear weapons programme, Abdul Qadeer Khan


....................

# guardian uk
# Friday May 30 2008

.......................

Four years ago you made a televised confession offering your "deepest regrets and unqualified apologies" for selling nuclear technology to Iran, North Korea and Libya. Was it genuine?
"I never was selling. This is the western garbage that uses the word selling. I never sold anything to anyone. I never sold anything and I never got any money. Nobody has proved this and nobody can prove it.
Was your confession made of your own free will?
"It was not of my own free will. It was handed into my hand."
So why did you agree to go along with it?
"Oh, in the national interest I guess. And the promises which were made."
What promises?
"Freedom, rehabilitation, all these things."
Are you happy that you went along with it?
"No, not now. I was hand-tied. I think it was a mistake. At that time things were not so clear and you couldn't see that people could go back on their words and renege their promises.
Do you hold President Pervez Musharraf personally responsible for this?
One person holds the reins, the others follow ... There are always self-seekers and sycophants and more lies. This goes on.
President Musharraf might say that American evidence forced him to act against you?

The Americans presented to the whole world the proof against Iraq. And you know what it was. And now about Iran, and so it goes on. It's unbelievable that Bush and Colin Powell and Dick Cheney and Condolleezza Rice are bringing lies, lies, lies, bringing photos and false documents ... it can happen everywhere.
Do you feel any responsibility for the nuclear programmes in North Korea, Libya or Iran?
No ... you must have read that the Swiss president destroyed papers that included weapons blueprints. [That shows that] the western countries have all those blueprints and technology and papers and know-how. So they were supplying to everyone. They were supplying to us, they were supplying to them. The only thing is that they were using the same route as we were using.
Which route was that?
Dubai. It was a free port. We were importing all our things from Dubai and all the other countries were importing from Dubai.
Some people say you were running a "nuclear supermarket", Time magazine called you a "merchant of menace". How do you feel about these terms?
I don't care. It doesn't bother me at all. They don't like our God, they don't like our prophet, they don't like our holy book, the Qur'an. So how could they like me?
... I have come to realise that one person writes – sorry to use the word – a ****pile and everyone picks up and quotes him whether it is true or not. It is meant for the western public, the western media, who are mostly totally ignorant of the facts here. [they say that] my house is a huge white villa, I have 43 villas here, I have so many bank accounts. Nobody could ever prove anything. [They say that] I had a very huge $10m hotel in Timbuktu. You should have gone and seen – it was an eight-room mud brick house where the poor people reside.
So you are not a rich man?
Never was, never will be.
-------------------
The IAEA wants to send its investigators to speak with you. Would you speak to them?
Why should I talk to them? I am under no obligation. We are not signatory to NPT [Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty]. I have not violated any international laws. So why should I talk to them?
So even if it were possible, you wouldn't?
Why should I? This is my internal affair and my country's affair – why should I talk to them?
They say they want to make sure no other country can illegally acquire the bomb.

Why don't you talk about Israel, why don't you talk about South Africa. Why did you supply and help South Africa to manufacture six bombs ... this is a discriminatory approach. That is wrong with us and it should be wrong with them also.
-------------------
There's been a lot of speculation that you are keeping an "insurance policy" -- documents that shows links between nuclear smuggling and the Pakistani military – with your daughter in London. Are you?
No such thing happened. MI6 has spoken to my daughter, they have been to her house. I did not keep any official paper in my house or anywhere. I know it's an official secret. … When I left I had a few ballpoints and a small table calendar and nothing else.
-------------------
What did you do for the celebrations to mark 10 years since Pakistan became a nuclear power?
I stayed at home. I saw on the TV what was going on, I saw on the newspapers. Some people sent flowers, some people phoned and congratulated.
How did you feel?
Two days are important in the history of Pakistan – the 14th of August, when Pakistan was created, and this 28th May, when at least Pakistan got the capacity of protecting itself against aggression and threats and blackmailing. It was a very big day. And since you have been a part of it, you feel proud of being such an historical movement.
What has Pakistan gained from having the bomb?
Peace. No attacks from India in the past 36 years. Otherwise there might have been a war in Kashmir, there might have been a war in Punjab ... that has given something, some sense of security to the country.
How has it defined Pakistan's relationship with the west. You said in the past the west was hostile to Islam. So what has it done?
You know very well the west never likes any country to be a bit independent, whether it is making a bomb, or whether it is financial position and stuff. They want to keep them under thumb. It is not giving any threat to anyone ... We have to look after our interests as the western countries look after their interests.
-------------------

Where are you speaking from?
I am inside my house. I'm in the living room. I can see the guards. You can see them, they are all around.
Do you hope your house arrest will be lifted soon?

There's always hope as long as the world is there. As long as you are living there is always hope. Without hope you can't survive.

[NoToRi0uS]

hmmm shame full for all Pakistanis & Pakistani establishment
he did a lot for Pakistan & let's suppose he did mistake , so what ??
Konsa aisa Politician hai jis ne mistakes nahe ki ??
sab aik se bhar ke aik corrupt & traitor
aur us Insan se yeh salooq jis ne Pak ke liye itna kuch kia ??
Shame Mushi
Shame PML(Q) & all others

[Taban_Khamosh]

Yaar it's the jurnails involved in this whole bidnizz ... someone said it very well.. he said, okay AQ khan sold secrets, but to transfer C130 planes were used.. did he fly them himself? ... I forget the name of the guest on one of the prog.. maybe samar mubarakmand said this ?)

Anyhoo, It was a whole network of people and it was the jurnails who were doing this sh!t.. some people use all the army resources for their personal benefit. This is such sensitive info, if it is only Dr AQ he would be eliminated immediately... I suspect many many highlevel ppl were involved..

but you know, our Jurnails take a bath in zamzam every morning... unkay noor say aaNkheN kheerah hoti haiN ... un par to kabhi ilzaam lag hi naheeN saktaa.

to becharay AQ Khan ko scapegoat bana diya.... but the conpiracy was bigger than this.. the point of the US/UK/Zionist controllers of our jurnails was to get the coward jurnails to force the top scientist of the country to "confess" on international TV, so then their media machine could use this in a few years to attack pakistan after they've weakened it using their piThThoo jurnails...

The plan is still in motion. Pakistan, the 7th nuclear power WITH DELIVERY MECHANISMS (ghaori, mauri, ghoRi, soori, kasoori, bhindi and tooori missiles) is "under threat" and our intelligentisa and all "danishwars" are trembling like little helpless orphan children and asking:

kiaa amreeka aiTmi hathyaar cheen legaa?
kiaa amreekaa?? ammi ammi.. kia amreeka aiTmi hathyaar cheen legaa?...



I got one advice for the pakistani qaum (especially jurnails): Stop being such GODDAMN COWARDS! And crack a frikkin history book for once!

[NoToRi0uS]

hahahaha
wese Itna bhee in ko Buzdil nahe hona chahiye they should learn lesson from Iran jo aik taraf to sab se relations bhe bana kar rakh raha hai aur dusri taraf baat bhe kisi ki nahe sun raha

Khair I guess may be yeh smugling he ho lekin aik aur cheez bhee hoti hai secret cooperation between different nations.. aur yeh koi likh ker to hota nahe Obviously exchange of tech & knowledge bhe hota hai,,, aur yaheen I guess AQ ke sath huwa hai, coz during that period yeh sab hota hai aur jab Amreeka ne apne Installed Mushi per pressure dala to yeh sahob bardasht he nahe ker sake aur sab kuch AQ khan ke sar per daal diya
yeh Obviously ab AQ khan ke hukam per to C130 kaheen jane se raha .. it happend on high level ....