Debate Off The Record 16th May 2009

[NoToRi0uS]

Host Kashif Abbasi
Guests:Zahid Khan ANP, Fardi Paracha JI, Fauzia Habib PPP

OR

[iceprince30]

These monkeys of Jamat-e-Harami should be bundled and sent to Taliban controlled area. Let them live there under their version of Sharia or whatever it is.


Baat kartey haiN...

[mansehra]

wow wht a bunch of idiots sitting and talking **** man, they really havent got any vision nothing, these **** mullus are really useless. just ban them taking part in politics, and mullu fazluuuu is an *******. he must be thrown out of politics. this is only the military of pakistan which can b trusted and these ****s need to b sent back home all sick incompetent idiot politicians.

[mistehbab]

Assalam-o-Alaikum ALL,

iceprince30: You have no idea what Jamaat-e-Islami stands for. You have no idea of the people who are its members, its workers. And let me say, you are wrong. You should get to know Jamaat-e-Islami, the people of Jamaat-e-Islami before labelling or bashing them.

Do you know that Jamaat-e-Islami was the only party that protested against Pakistan government when it was ready to sign CTBT and NPT treaties? No other party organized protests. No other protested against Pakistan signing these treaties.

It was Jamaat-e-Islami and other religious parties that protested against the Lal Masjid incident. I don't recall any other party protesting against that incident.

First, you guys should notice, that the ANP representative has been caught lying on public media. If that is any indication of his credibility, then all his statements are based on lies.

There are significant questions to be asked, such as;

a) The ANP member points out one fact again and again, that they want to "establish government's writ" in this area. Well, they are not doing that in Karachi. In Karachi, they are in coalition government with MQM, a widely known criminal party. Why are they in coalition with a MQM? Why aren't they trying to establish their writ in Karachi?

MQM has been ruling, I would say torturing, Karachi for more than 2 decades. Does PPP or ANP have any say in Karachi? Doesn't MQM rule Karachi at gunpoint? Isn't it MQM which has 200+ cases against them?

Why isn't PPP or ANP government opposing MQM then? Why aren't PPP or ANP punishing MQM? Why isn't PPP or ANP looking over cases on MQM?

Why are they letting MQM continue their torture on Karachi?

Why isn't the PPP government establishing its writ in Karachi?

If you have been following news, you will have noticed that one of ANP's official has a reported incident against him in US. He is with Zardari in US. That guy has seriously disgraced his party image by his actions. Read what he's doing there. Its all over the news. I don't think ANP officials have any credibility after such events. One has been found lying on public media, the other has been found going to night-clubs.

However, I agree, people have voted for them. People are fully enjoying the fruits of voting for them too :D

Also, Pakistan government is portraying that they have everything under control regarding IDPs. That is far from the truth. UN hasn't declared humanitarian emergency for IDPs for having fun. If you have an eye on American media, you'd know that.

PPP or ANP does not have the will or experience to manage such situations i.e., IDPs. There's little that we have seen ANP or PPP do for IDPs thus far. That in itself is an indication of their hypocracy. They portray one thing on media, however ground realities paint a totally different picture.

The government is intentionally deceiving the whole nation. The credibility of PPP and ANP officials is questionable. No one can believe their statements, because there's little or no evidence for it.

b) The government's writ has been challenged in Balochistan. Why isn't the government doing the same in Balochistan?



Secondly, your opinions are based on what has been presented in media. There's more information, which has not been presented. For e.g.

***************************** [No External Links Allowed]

listen to it before you bash out the mullahs'.

The miss-creants that everyone is talking about, the above dialogue clearly establishes the fact that it is NOT Taliban, who are doing this.

It is other elements, who have hidden themselves under the slogan "Taliban" who are carrying out criminal acts.

It can be local criminals, it can be fighters from the surrounding regions. It can be American bought or brain-washed morons. It can be agents or people working for Indian agencies, organizations. It can be those who want revenge for Lal Masjid incident. It can be those who dis-agree with Pakistan, Pakistan Army, Pakistan government, because the fact that Pakistan, Pakistan Army, Pakistan government has eaten money from America. Pakistan, Pakistan Army, Pakistan government has formed an alliance with Americans, the terms of this alliance say that Pakistan, Pakistan Army, Pakistan government will kill more and more in NWFP, FATA, PATA belt. Innocent Pashtoon are dying as a result.

That is a very good reason which any Pashtoon can point out for fighting against Pakistan, Pakistan Army, Pakistan government. The irony is, they are right. Pakistan, Pakistan Army, Pakistan government is wrong in this instance.

What's happening in Swat, Buner and surrounding areas, is not solely the work of Taliban. There are others envolved. When you listen to the discussion on the link above, you will get an idea of those 'not-talked-about-elements-other-than-Taliban'.

No politician is talking about these 'other' elements. No light is being put on these people. ALL blame is conveniently being put on Taliban. That is wrong. Any person or party SHOULD only be blamed for their own actions. not for other's actions.

This is why Jamaat-e-Islami isn't clearly saying Taliban are bad. Because too much of what is going on in these areas is unknown.

No investigation has been done. No clear facts have been established. The accusation on Taliban is incidental or coincidental, which doesn't prove anything in the court of law. Yet Pakistan, Pakistan Army, Pakistan government has started military action against them.

The situation is complex. It is not just the "Taliban" who are envolved in that area. There are other significant elements that are being intentionally hidden from discussion.

The whole excersize is to target the Taliban. But without any clear evidence that they are the ones who are causing problems, we just have speculations driving our opinions. We are talking out of fear of "what might happen".

Right now, there's no independent coverage of what is going on in that area. Only the Army's or the government's point of view is being shown. When you hear one sided information, it's hard to tell right from wrong.

Lastly, one of these morons tried to bring chaos to the discussionby saying "who's sharia?". There's so much evidence available against this argument today, that who-ever mentions the sentence "who's sharia?", I feel it my obligation to seriously BASH them with ALL those facts, and by the time I'm done, no one would see him as a man with a good reputation. No one would take that man as one with any credibility.

M. Istehbab

[lexkhan]

good program kashif...

[lilly_isl]

Originally Posted by iceprince30

These monkeys of Jamat-e-Harami should be bundled and sent to Taliban controlled area. Let them live there under their version of Sharia or whatever it is.


Baat kartey haiN...

agreed these stupids ideots molvies are born to mess ....these idiots should be sent to that area ,, and then starts dialogue

[FIA]

i agree with that.......<

[DiL Dukhta hai]

Originally Posted by iceprince30

These monkeys of Jamat-e-Harami should be bundled and sent to Taliban controlled area. Let them live there under their version of Sharia or whatever it is.


Baat kartey haiN...

well said jamat-e-harami perfect name for munafiq fazlo & co

[wellwisher]

I think these anchor persons are inviting these low-life Jamatiyas inorder t increase their ratings... the statements of these half-educated, dim witted mullahs is well known...
@to some dim-wits who are suggesting a visit to Jamatiya office
Why shuld one go to Jamatiya's office.. that will be STUPIDITY in COLLOSAL PROPORTIONS. Don't expect every one to be as stupid as you. I know you have some problm with ANP... but supporting Jamatiyas is not the solution.. you can do it better if you try!! I very well know people of your ilk.. they infected the other "popular" pk political forum... but slowly this forum has also become a breeding ground of these semi-literate morons... Admins shuld do some pest-control.


wellwisher added 8 Minutes and 1 Seconds later...

To Fazal Karim saab... our constitution clearly states that Army can be used for internal policing if civil administration fails .. being a law-maker you must be knowing this.. oh excuse me... you are a Jamtiya.. one of those INTELLECTUALLY CHALLENGED types...

[mistehbab]

Assalam-o-Alaikum,

@wellwisher: The information on which your opinion is based is wrong. You have partial information. Get a complete picture of the situation before bashing others with a show off of your intellectual capabilities.

P.S. I will accept the mistakes I/We make. But I will NOT accept responsibility for mistakes I/We haven't made.

M. Istehbab

[zubair1234]

A0a brother Mistehab welldone. We need this type of thinking, I like 2 add few more points. 1st they i mean this kind of group get together and make oath that they will do theire best 4 pakistan and islam. So we need the people like ZAID HAMID,IMRAN KHAN, HAMEED GUL AND THERE MUST BE SOME MORE. INSHAALLAH THEN WE CAN SEE THE HOPE. With this hookmaran no hope they should b wipe out from land of pak.

[zubair1234]

A0a brother Mistehab welldone. We need this type of thinking, I like 2 add few more points. 1st they i mean this kind of group get together and make oath that they will do theire best 4 pakistan and islam. So we need the people like ZAID HAMID,IMRAN KHAN, HAMEED GUL AND THERE MUST BE SOME MORE. INSHAALLAH THEN WE CAN SEE THE HOPE. With this hookmaran no hope they should b wipe out from land of pak.

[tauqirnawaz]

Originally Posted by DiL Dukhta hai

well said jamat-e-harami perfect name for munafiq fazlo & co

Yes, these are the only "harami's" present there to help Swati displaced people (watch Bolta Pakistan 15th May 2009). Rest of "Harami's" are sitting in their homes in Islamabad, Lahore, Karachi and London; enjoying the miseries of these people.

[wellwisher]

@M. Ihtebab
Plzz correct me if this information is wrong:

* Jamatiyas as a part of MMA were Musharaff's YES MEN and they didn't gave a sh*t when Mushy & Army were using helicopter gunships in FATA, Waziristan etc..
* Jamatiyas were also very much there in Musharaff's cabinet when drones killed innocents there.. oh I forgot... they were busy in making money from Diesel. Yes you can say they opposed but didn't do nothing.. they enjoyed their power to tha maximum possible extent.
Barking BLAH..BLAH..BLAH on TV talk shows doesn't mean much. ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS.
* Jamatiyas like cowards boycotted lections... seeing their loosing popularity it was a wise move.
* Jamatiyas always & will be a bunch of talking air-heads opposing everything. Atleast ANP had the guts & vision to talk with TSNM... these jamatiyas are just puking on talk shows.
The question here is CREDIBILITY... Jamatiyas with each & every passing day are loosing their credibility... they shuld shut their traps and stop critisizing.

[tauqirnawaz]

Originally Posted by wellwisher

@M. Ihtebab
Plzz correct me if this information is wrong:

* Jamatiyas as a part of MMA were Musharaff's YES MEN and they didn't gave a sh*t when Mushy & Army were using helicopter gunships in FATA, Waziristan etc..
* Jamatiyas were also very much there in Musharaff's cabinet when drones killed innocents there.. oh I forgot... they were busy in making money from Diesel. Yes you can say they opposed but didn't do nothing.. they enjoyed their power to tha maximum possible extent.

I am not defending JI but you should make your facts right before arguing, FATA means Federally Administered Tribal Areas.