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Discuss Waqia Sawat:Dr Israr Ahmad Speech:Girl Flogging 10-April in Miscellaneous forum, in Miscellaneous Videos category.
      
   
  1. #1
    Ehtesab is offline Banned
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    A salam o alykum,

    Dr. Israr Ahmad latest sermon on Waqia Sawat, 10th April Friday

    Listen Online (Real Player Required)

    http://www.tanzeemarchive.org/tanzee...09-04-10DR.ram


    OR

    Download complete speech


    Attachment 11349


    [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeljNcJLAlM&feature=channel_page[/media][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RSpH7KBeR8k&feature=channel_page[/media][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tmyn2nvpyTc&feature=channel_page[/media][media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWpOtrGvJIQ&feature=channel_page[/media]
    Last edited by Kaleem; 04-13-2009 at 05:33 AM.

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  2. #61
    asma saddique is offline Member
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    Re: Waqia Sawat:Dr Israr Ahmad Speech:Girl Flogging 10-April

    Quote Originally Posted by mirchi View Post
    Brother tariqmalik! salam. As somewhere else you are also using wahabism and Abdul wahab. But nobody dare to write what exactly he did? Nobody is putting any reference. I replied in some other thread like that:

    [I found that some people are frequently bringing the name of Wahabism and Abdul Wahab without any justification. May I ask these people whether they ever travelled to Saudi Arabia and whether they ever studied what Abdul Wahab did for Saudi Arabia???

    Abdul Wahab cleaned Saudi Arabia or Hijaz from Shirk. The condition was the same like what we are seeing in Pakistan today.

    Now there is no one in Saudi Arabia who bows in front of any Pagadaz, any Makhdooms, or any Golraz. There is no one to give ghusals to graves. There are no Sajada Nashins now in Saudi Arabia. There is no URS for anybody. That is what Islam says.
    If you think that it is wrong then correct me. If you have information other than that then please share with us.]

    I spent 12 years in Saudi Arabia but I didn't see any thing wrong. What I saw is totally Islamic. I will be pleased if you correct me by giving any reference. Saudi society is so tolerant that no body will believe. A mix of community from all world. Nobody will tell you why you are praying without cape, why you are praying with hands hanging etc etc??
    you are absolutely right. Exactly, i have also not seen anything wrong in Wahabis but people dislike them for their straight and solid Islamic ways coz our people are following Islam by the persons (peer, Murshad, naqshbundi & bidats) who are human like us. no one is perfect except of My Beloved Prophet (PBUH) then why we stand for a man? even we have Quran in its original form(even after 1400 yrs) and still people wants to follow a Human then follow the life of Muhammad (PBUH) and Sahaba karam (R.A). now i think there is no sense to discuss other persons coz bat ye nahi hai k wo kia thay ya kia nahi, bat ye hai k sub insan hi hain na ab wo jannati hain ya jahanumi ye Allah ko pata hoga but ye bat ager hamari samagh mai aa jay tu aj hum chaand pe na pohanch jain is discussion ko chorr ke.

    once i was reading a historical book in which a saleebi intelligence officer (time period, Salahuddin Ayubi) was preparing a group of his soldiers. he assinged them duty to study deeply the Aqaid of Islam then ask them to add some wrong things in a way that simple muslims could not understand it. His Senior boss asked him Ayubi has planned a dangerous attack on us and you are wasting time & money on these foolish & silly things, why? He replied "sir these are not silly things, this is long term planning. You just want to fight & finish Ayubi and i want to finish Islam. and that is only possible when we distribute them into groups & destroy the original face of Islam". today i appreciate that officer's brain.

    asma saddique added 14 Minutes and 44 Seconds later...

    one more:

    Baghdad Empire was the Markaz of Khilafat & big state having everything (educated people, artists, Aslah saaz, scientists, Ulama, tabeebs, alot of force, huge buildings). But when Halaku Khan came to destroy Baghdod....lol.... they all were busy in "Manazra (discussion who is better in all firqas, there were Malki, Shafi, Hanfi, Sunni, Shia)". Halaku killed 20 Lakh Muslims... hehehe.... and ordered their soldiers to not leave alive even animal or birds. after cutting everyone he felt some people are hidden in the Morchas of their homes. He asked his forces "Bund torr do" so Dajla & Farat become red by the blood of Hanfi, maliki, Shafi, Sunnis & Shias (not muslims).... hahahah... no can stop or fight with Halaku Khan....

    asma saddique added 3 Minutes and 23 Seconds later...

    My dear brothers, if we are muslims then we can resist but if sunni, shia, malki, shafi, wahabi, brailvi, deobundi, then continue Manazra and wait for Halaku Khan.... hahahaha......
    Last edited by asma saddique; 04-15-2009 at 05:03 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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    Re: Waqia Sawat:Dr Israr Ahmad Speech:Girl Flogging 10-April

    Quote Originally Posted by gulshah View Post
    asma even a one day child now that hazret alis father name is abu talib and i do not want to say bad thing against u because i am syed and our family which is prophet muhammed gave too much respect to women u sad that u read a non muslim writer book that wakea kerbala never exist u should feel ashame of ur self even wahabees and deobandees beleive it exist whom always says bad things against imam hussain and hazret ali and prophet muhammed they say him aik aam insaan but they did not complete the whole ayet aur aap per wahi nazel ki gae kia aam insaan pe wahe nazel hote hai every one nows asma that kerbala exists even prophet muhammed mentioned about his khawabs and u r giving bad examples of non muslim u r a confused minded girl
    Dear gulshah! Abu Talib in arabic means father of Talib, meaning he was having a son by the name Talib, thats why he was called Abu Talib. This is tradition in Arabian countries that they want to be called by their sons name and not by their Name.
    Asma wrote that she saw in one place that Waqya Karbala didnot happened at all, If she put that here, everybody will say that asma is kafir.... God forbid.

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    asma saddique is offline Member
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    Re: Waqia Sawat:Dr Israr Ahmad Speech:Girl Flogging 10-April

    Quote Originally Posted by mirchi View Post
    Dear gulshah! Abu Talib in arabic means father of Talib, meaning he was having a son by the name Talib, thats why he was called Abu Talib. This is tradition in Arabian countries that they want to be called by their sons name and not by their Name.
    Asma wrote that she saw in one place that Waqya Karbala didnot happened at all, If she put that here, everybody will say that asma is kafir.... God forbid.
    gulshah! i think you Mirchi have answered from my side, put it well. Abu Talib hi tu saray shion ne kaha tha.... hahaha. brother, Talib un ka aik baita tha jo k kisi jung mai shaheed ho gia tha jis se wo buhat piar karte thay aur ye unki kunniat bani... Abu Talib... his original name is not in history... and i just Qouted here a non-muslim writer's statement, did not say that i believe on that... or i have not said that writer was true... i just wanted to tell you that different people wrote different stories even original incidents (me talking about all history, not only karbala) have mixed so for this we cant judge what is exactly happend and we cant call anyone kafir... but you could not get my point and same... as you called dr. sb kafir.... lol.... now asking me to shame on me.... anyway you can call me kafir coz you have your own standard / parameters for Islam... i have to go for asar prayer.. Allah Hafiz my muslim bhai....

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  5. #64
    gulshah is offline always follow your heart
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    Re: Waqia Sawat:Dr Israr Ahmad Speech:Girl Flogging 10-April

    the person who do not beleive on wakea kerbala is non muslim i respect ur views many incidents can be wrong i agree with u asma but wakea kerbala is 100 percent wright u sad wahabis follow simple way of islam but what about their says that prophet muhammed aik aam insaan hein like us they always quote quranic terjema for it of a ayet but they did not include the full terjama which says that un per wahe utare gaee to kia asma aap per bhe wahee nazel hoee joo aap wahabeo ki tareef ker rahe hein u r saying u r not wahabi but u r posing their agenda here they follow simple islam and praising them i accept one of ur argument that in now days many of peers are jaali i accept it but what about sultan baho peers and data sahibs murshid i suggest u please read kashful majood written by data sahib he sad that there will be a time where the more peers will be fake the real peers will be hidden or murshid what u says because they will not be allowed to show themselves but this does not means making some body murshid is wrong in total sense it is wrong in now days as i quoted data sahibs baat he also sad that sirf sahibe ilm logo ko aslee murshid yaa peer ke mutaleq pata hoo ga hum jase gunghar logo ko nahe do u now data sahib ke bhe peer the sultan bhae ke bhe murshed the so u r right for peers for now days peers not the peers or murshids of old time so getting wasela is not wrong of somebody in my every prayer i says allah mein tum se syeda fatima, hussain, hassan, ali, muhammed ke waste se mangata hoon i never says that they will give me i says that these peoples are closer to u prophet muhammed is ur messenger and allah say joo bhe muhammed ke waslee se manga ga usse zaroor milee ga if allah saying then how giving some ones waseela is wrong eg, tv hamare leaee mallomat hasel kerne ka waseela ha internet bhee hai u cannot get the proper and patient maloomat without any waseela so waseela is must for every thing do not lose the wasela give wasela of muhammed , syeda fatima and others. if somebody goes to a mazaar says there peer baba aap he mujhe seb kuch deenge aap he mera akhri sahra hein now that is shirk but if somebody goes there and offer surah fatah there for rooh ke isaale swaab ke leaee and says suppose i am on data sahib derbar and i says aalah talah data saheb tumhare intahee naek bande the in ke waseele see mujhe dee de now thats wright and its not shirk because u did not ask directly from data sahib u just use his name because he was more pious person then u so there is high probabilty of qabolleet of ur dua the peoples dua sajda on minaars is wrong that is shirk so going to mezaar is not wrong but ur adaat eg sajda or example of above can make it shirk if it is done in a proper way like i sad then it is wrong. if going to mezaar is wrong then it must be baned to go to prophet muhammed mezaar because he also have a mezaar even wahabees and deobandi goes there thats way i sad them munafiqs looke at their munafiqet going on the muhammeds mizaar is wright going to other oliaas mazaar is wrong i will wait for ur answer in detail from u asma i will not accept mirchees and other peoples answer try to make me wrong with examples as i gave examples u can also gacve me examples if i sees ur examples are right i will accept my defeat thankyou and please answer i will wait

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    Re: Waqia Sawat:Dr Israr Ahmad Speech:Girl Flogging 10-April

    Quote Originally Posted by gulshah View Post
    the person who do not beleive on wakea kerbala is non muslim i respect ur views many incidents can be wrong i agree with u asma but wakea kerbala is 100 percent wright u sad wahabis follow simple way of islam but what about their says that prophet muhammed aik aam insaan hein like us they always quote quranic terjema for it of a ayet but they did not include the full terjama which says that un per wahe utare gaee to kia asma aap per bhe wahee nazel hoee joo aap wahabeo ki tareef ker rahe hein u r saying u r not wahabi but u r posing their agenda here they follow simple islam and praising them i accept one of ur argument that in now days many of peers are jaali i accept it but what about sultan baho peers and data sahibs murshid i suggest u please read kashful majood written by data sahib he sad that there will be a time where the more peers will be fake the real peers will be hidden or murshid what u says because they will not be allowed to show themselves but this does not means making some body murshid is wrong in total sense it is wrong in now days as i quoted data sahibs baat he also sad that sirf sahibe ilm logo ko aslee murshid yaa peer ke mutaleq pata hoo ga hum jase gunghar logo ko nahe do u now data sahib ke bhe peer the sultan bhae ke bhe murshed the so u r right for peers for now days peers not the peers or murshids of old time so getting wasela is not wrong of somebody in my every prayer i says allah mein tum se syeda fatima, hussain, hassan, ali, muhammed ke waste se mangata hoon i never says that they will give me i says that these peoples are closer to u prophet muhammed is ur messenger and allah say joo bhe muhammed ke waslee se manga ga usse zaroor milee ga if allah saying then how giving some ones waseela is wrong eg, tv hamare leaee mallomat hasel kerne ka waseela ha internet bhee hai u cannot get the proper and patient maloomat without any waseela so waseela is must for every thing do not lose the wasela give wasela of muhammed , syeda fatima and others. if somebody goes to a mazaar says there peer baba aap he mujhe seb kuch deenge aap he mera akhri sahra hein now that is shirk but if somebody goes there and offer surah fatah there for rooh ke isaale swaab ke leaee and says suppose i am on data sahib derbar and i says aalah talah data saheb tumhare intahee naek bande the in ke waseele see mujhe dee de now thats wright and its not shirk because u did not ask directly from data sahib u just use his name because he was more pious person then u so there is high probabilty of qabolleet of ur dua the peoples dua sajda on minaars is wrong that is shirk so going to mezaar is not wrong but ur adaat eg sajda or example of above can make it shirk if it is done in a proper way like i sad then it is wrong. if going to mezaar is wrong then it must be baned to go to prophet muhammed mezaar because he also have a mezaar even wahabees and deobandi goes there thats way i sad them munafiqs looke at their munafiqet going on the muhammeds mizaar is wright going to other oliaas mazaar is wrong i will wait for ur answer in detail from u asma i will not accept mirchees and other peoples answer try to make me wrong with examples as i gave examples u can also gacve me examples if i sees ur examples are right i will accept my defeat thankyou and please answer i will wait
    1 - the person who do not beleive on wakea kerbala is non muslim :-


    Ye konsa new aqeeda he...ye aqeeda to persians ka bhi nahi he

    shah se berh ke shah ke wafadar banne ki koshish....

    Mainstream 85% Islam has 3 basic aqaids

    1-Tauheed
    2-Risalat
    3-Akhirat

    Persians have 5 aqaids

    1-Tauheed
    2-Risalat
    3-Akhirat
    4-Imamat
    5-Adal

    Ye to tum koi new sect IJAAD ker rahe ho

    There was incident , took place in Karabala...Ofcourse it happened n i believe on it,but its bcz of historical fact , not bcz of religious belief
    Lot of muslims even at that time were of different opinion about this incident.
    Kindly read some islamic history books.
    I'm sorry but you badly need to go through some islamic text books.

    2 - Wahabi says that muhammed aik aam insaan hein

    Again this is a misnomer ,Mainstream 85% muslims except persian cult , consider Hazrat Muhammad saw as "bashar"......which is the main issue.
    Even Sufi creed ulama had same belief , but most of followers of sufism DO NOT KNOW about why sufi ulama use to call hazrat Muhammad saw as NOOR , so they usually misunderstand and than wrongly follow this belief that Hazrat Muhammad saw was "NOT Bashar".

    I'm not gona explain it in detail, just a brief hint.

    Every Human being is a compund of NOOR+Khak

    Noor = Soul = Noori Makhlooq
    Khak = Jism = Khaki Wajood

    & BASHAR = Noor + Khak(Noori wajood+khaki wajood) = Insan ( Highest RANK among all creations)

    Angels = Only Noori Makhlooq
    Jinn = Naari Makhlooq

    Noor guides a person towards Hidayat
    & Khak guides towards manly needs (nafsani khwahishat)

    Now what Sufi Ulama claim while saying Hazrat Muhammad saw was Noor actually they mean, it is ALLAH will and after that its a person act , so that his Noori wajood covers his Khaki wajood and this Noori influence is SO overwhelming on Khaki wajood that it SEEMS that there is no khaki wajood and there is Noor n Noor everywhere.

    So As prophet Muhammad saw was the MOST perfect human being on earth So his Noori wajood totally covered his khaki wajood.So IN RESPECT we should not call him other than Noor as khaki wajood(worldy needs) would disrespect him.


    But while saying that Sufi Ulama does not mean that Muhammad saw was NOT BASHAR :-) this is extremely important point...Sufi ulama understand it...But Followers..usually 90% followers do not know about sufi terms at all...

    There are various fields of sufism , mostly sufism followers do not have a 1% clue of them :-)

    i will right few just for example....just read these name n ask Yourself how many of these belifs DO YOU really understand

    & last a very interesting thing....

    Even Deobandi & Barelvi Ulama BOTH HAVE same thoughts at upper level of suifsm...

    But deobandi ulama did not propogate these teachings to the common man.
    But barelvi ulama did.

    therefore deobandi awaam & barelvi awaam are poles apart :-) BUT actually
    Deoband ulama & barelvi ulama in sighting sufism are very close :-)

    Some of sufism aqaids,

    Ihsan · Noor · Maqaam · Haal · Manzil · Yaqeen · Fanaa · Baqaa · Haqiqah ·Marifah · Nafs · Dhawq · Sulook · Cosmology · Kashf · Metaphysics ·Psychology · Tajalli

    3 - wahabis follow simple way of islam :-

    Its true ,

    Not only Wahhabis....

    Muslims influenced by ARAB fiqh are mostly ZAHIRIS (more quran & sunnah , less personal opinion )

    Muslims influenced by Persian fiqhs (whether Shiites or Hanfi) are more oriented towards KALAAM (Fiqh superior than other teachings)

    Initially Ilm-ul-Kalam Ulama were really big philosopher having Greek & roman knowledge ,Pakistan & India both are influenced by this FIQHI Islam, Arab world is usually influenced Simple Quran & Hadiths teachings.

    btw there is nothing wrong with Ilm-ul-Kalam
    but it requires more knowledge to understand , again its not SIMPLE to understand & follow.

    4 - is not wrong of somebody in my every prayer i says allah mein tum se syeda fatima, hussain, hassan, ali, muhammed ke waste se mangata hoon


    Usually all Praying acts are very well taught by Hazrat Muhammad saw through saheh hadiths...Kindly write a hadith as a reference which allow Such prays to ask

    otherwise aap ne ye likh ke darasal TUHMAT bandhi he aap saw per ke unho ne ye tareqa btaya he dua mangne ka....

    Dua mangne ka ye tareqa nahi he...Kindly read some Hadith books

    Aik cheez hoti he "Ghulu" , ke adab me itna aage nikal jana ke ulta sahib-e-adab ki tauheen ker dena..

    jesa ke Abdullah Ibn-e-saba ne kiya tha...usne Ghulu me aa ke Hazrat Ali(ra) ko Khuda kehna shru ker diya....hata ke jab Hazrat Ali(ra) ne usko jalane ka hukm dia tab bhi badbakht ne yehi kaha ke ye lazmi khuda he werna khuda ke alawa koi jalane ka azaab nahi deta....
    Darhakeekat ye usne tauheen ki hazrat Ali(ra) ki taleemat ki....
    ...
    Kher

    5 - that is shirk but if somebody goes there and offer surah fatah there for rooh ke isaale swaab

    Wahhabi , deobandi have absolutely no problem with iisaal-e-sawab , differece is on way of performing iisaal-e-sawab.

    For some it is in reciting prayers, offering hajj n umra from deceased , reciting quran n etc....

    for some it must be performed through particular ritual in particular days.

    6 - Somebody raise the issue of Abu talib.....This is a non issue if anyone of you have EVER READ Saheeh Bukhari , but unfortuantely we are so much influenced from persian that we dun even bother to read them.

    I would only copy Direct Hadiths from sahih Bukhari , No comment from My side
    according to the Sahi Hadith of Prophet Mohammad Peace Be Upon Him in Sahi Bukhari which is the most authentic and verified Book of Hadiths of Prophet Mohammad Peace Be Upon him

    1. Narrated Al-Abbas bin 'Abdul Muttalib: That he said to the Prophet "You have not been of any avail to your uncle (Abu Talib) (though) by Allah, he used to protect you and used to become angry on your behalf." The Prophet said, "He is in a shallow fire, and had It not been for me, he would have been in the bottom of the (Hell) Fire." (Book #58, Hadith #222)

    2. Narrated Al-Musaiyab: When Abu Talib was in his death bed, the Prophet went to him while Abu Jahl was sitting beside him. The Prophet said, "O my uncle! Say: None has the right to be worshipped except Allah, an expression I will defend your case with, before Allah." Abu Jahl and 'Abdullah bin Umaya said, "O Abu Talib! Will you leave the religion of 'Abdul Muttalib?" So they kept on saying this to him so that the last statement he said to them (before he died) was: "I am on the religion of 'Abdul Muttalib." Then the Prophet said, " I will keep on asking for Allah's Forgiveness for you unless I am forbidden to do so." Then the following Verse was revealed:-- "It is not fitting for the Prophet and the believers to ask Allah's Forgiveness for the pagans, even if they were their near relatives, after it has become clear to them that they are the dwellers of the (Hell) Fire." (9.113) The other Verse was also revealed:-- "(O Prophet!) Verily, you guide not whom you like, but Allah guides whom He will ......." (28.56) (Book #58, Hadith #223)

    3. Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: That he heard the Prophet when somebody mentioned his uncle (i.e. Abu Talib), saying, "Perhaps my intercession will be helpful to him on the Day of Resurrection so that he may be put in a shallow fire reaching only up to his ankles. His brain will boil from it." (Book #58, Hadith #224)

    4. Narrated 'Abdullah bin Al-Harith bin Naufal: Abbas bin 'Abdul Muttalib said, "O Allah's Apostle! Did you benefit Abu Talib with anything as he used to protect and take care of you, and used to become angry for you?" The Prophet said, "Yes, he is in a shallow place of Fire. But for me he would have been in the lowest part of the Fire." (Book #73, Hadith #227)


    7 - If someone is syed he must deserve a respect :-

    In islam , your ancestral background does not guarantee your entrance in heaven ....

    It is only the TAQWA which makes one muslim superior than other muslims...
    ...
    Even Abu jahal and Abu Lahab used to be Prophet's saw Uncle .... but they were misguided....

    Any syed can go in HELL if he is not righteous , does not follow Islamic believes....
    & Any Human Being , any achhot,shooder,arabi,ajami,hindu,bangali CAN enter into heaven if he/she accepts the truth of islam & follows it accordingly..

    syedi KIRDAR ahem cheez he...
    syedi JISM tumhe jannat me le ke nahi jaiga

    Thx

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    gulshah is offline always follow your heart
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    Re: Waqia Sawat:Dr Israr Ahmad Speech:Girl Flogging 10-April

    i did not read any one of ur comment as i sa u r a mardood shaitan and belong to yazeed so i just look ur name and saw again u r spreading ur shirk so just keep u quite do not try to be ahero a filthy man i did not ask u as i mentioned above i do not need answer from u now do not show ur face again u r a makrooh man

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    asim99 is offline Banned
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    Re: Waqia Sawat:Dr Israr Ahmad Speech:Girl Flogging 10-April

    Quote Originally Posted by cheekooo View Post
    Mainstream 85% Islam has 3 basic aqaids
    1.where did you get that 85% figure? got a source for that?
    2. what about the mainstream 15% islam? enlighten us?
    Persians have 5 aqaids
    3.what do you mean by persians?

    thanks

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    gulshah is offline always follow your heart
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    Re: Waqia Sawat:Dr Israr Ahmad Speech:Girl Flogging 10-April

    u r a qadyani chekoo u proved urself

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    Re: Waqia Sawat:Dr Israr Ahmad Speech:Girl Flogging 10-April

    cheekoo i must appreciate your knowledge about religion. good efforts and i like that you did not say like we most pakistanis do if ur r not from my group you are kafir ....

    again good explanation and we need some more balanced person like you in pakistan than really no body can make fool of us on sect bassis.

    thank you for your info.

    regards

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    mirchi's Avatar
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    Re: Waqia Sawat:Dr Israr Ahmad Speech:Girl Flogging 10-April

    Quote Originally Posted by cheekooo View Post
    1 - the person who do not beleive on wakea kerbala is non muslim :-


    Ye konsa new aqeeda he...ye aqeeda to persians ka bhi nahi he

    shah se berh ke shah ke wafadar banne ki koshish....

    Mainstream 85% Islam has 3 basic aqaids

    1-Tauheed
    2-Risalat
    3-Akhirat

    Persians have 5 aqaids

    1-Tauheed
    2-Risalat
    3-Akhirat
    4-Imamat
    5-Adal

    Ye to tum koi new sect IJAAD ker rahe ho

    There was incident , took place in Karabala...Ofcourse it happened n i believe on it,but its bcz of historical fact , not bcz of religious belief
    Lot of muslims even at that time were of different opinion about this incident.
    Kindly read some islamic history books.
    I'm sorry but you badly need to go through some islamic text books.

    2 - Wahabi says that muhammed aik aam insaan hein

    Again this is a misnomer ,Mainstream 85% muslims except persian cult , consider Hazrat Muhammad saw as "bashar"......which is the main issue.
    Even Sufi creed ulama had same belief , but most of followers of sufism DO NOT KNOW about why sufi ulama use to call hazrat Muhammad saw as NOOR , so they usually misunderstand and than wrongly follow this belief that Hazrat Muhammad saw was "NOT Bashar".

    I'm not gona explain it in detail, just a brief hint.

    Every Human being is a compund of NOOR+Khak

    Noor = Soul = Noori Makhlooq
    Khak = Jism = Khaki Wajood

    & BASHAR = Noor + Khak(Noori wajood+khaki wajood) = Insan ( Highest RANK among all creations)

    Angels = Only Noori Makhlooq
    Jinn = Naari Makhlooq

    Noor guides a person towards Hidayat
    & Khak guides towards manly needs (nafsani khwahishat)

    Now what Sufi Ulama claim while saying Hazrat Muhammad saw was Noor actually they mean, it is ALLAH will and after that its a person act , so that his Noori wajood covers his Khaki wajood and this Noori influence is SO overwhelming on Khaki wajood that it SEEMS that there is no khaki wajood and there is Noor n Noor everywhere.

    So As prophet Muhammad saw was the MOST perfect human being on earth So his Noori wajood totally covered his khaki wajood.So IN RESPECT we should not call him other than Noor as khaki wajood(worldy needs) would disrespect him.


    But while saying that Sufi Ulama does not mean that Muhammad saw was NOT BASHAR :-) this is extremely important point...Sufi ulama understand it...But Followers..usually 90% followers do not know about sufi terms at all...

    There are various fields of sufism , mostly sufism followers do not have a 1% clue of them :-)

    i will right few just for example....just read these name n ask Yourself how many of these belifs DO YOU really understand

    & last a very interesting thing....

    Even Deobandi & Barelvi Ulama BOTH HAVE same thoughts at upper level of suifsm...

    But deobandi ulama did not propogate these teachings to the common man.
    But barelvi ulama did.

    therefore deobandi awaam & barelvi awaam are poles apart :-) BUT actually
    Deoband ulama & barelvi ulama in sighting sufism are very close :-)

    Some of sufism aqaids,

    Ihsan · Noor · Maqaam · Haal · Manzil · Yaqeen · Fanaa · Baqaa · Haqiqah ·Marifah · Nafs · Dhawq · Sulook · Cosmology · Kashf · Metaphysics ·Psychology · Tajalli

    3 - wahabis follow simple way of islam :-

    Its true ,

    Not only Wahhabis....

    Muslims influenced by ARAB fiqh are mostly ZAHIRIS (more quran & sunnah , less personal opinion )

    Muslims influenced by Persian fiqhs (whether Shiites or Hanfi) are more oriented towards KALAAM (Fiqh superior than other teachings)

    Initially Ilm-ul-Kalam Ulama were really big philosopher having Greek & roman knowledge ,Pakistan & India both are influenced by this FIQHI Islam, Arab world is usually influenced Simple Quran & Hadiths teachings.

    btw there is nothing wrong with Ilm-ul-Kalam
    but it requires more knowledge to understand , again its not SIMPLE to understand & follow.

    4 - is not wrong of somebody in my every prayer i says allah mein tum se syeda fatima, hussain, hassan, ali, muhammed ke waste se mangata hoon


    Usually all Praying acts are very well taught by Hazrat Muhammad saw through saheh hadiths...Kindly write a hadith as a reference which allow Such prays to ask

    otherwise aap ne ye likh ke darasal TUHMAT bandhi he aap saw per ke unho ne ye tareqa btaya he dua mangne ka....

    Dua mangne ka ye tareqa nahi he...Kindly read some Hadith books

    Aik cheez hoti he "Ghulu" , ke adab me itna aage nikal jana ke ulta sahib-e-adab ki tauheen ker dena..

    jesa ke Abdullah Ibn-e-saba ne kiya tha...usne Ghulu me aa ke Hazrat Ali(ra) ko Khuda kehna shru ker diya....hata ke jab Hazrat Ali(ra) ne usko jalane ka hukm dia tab bhi badbakht ne yehi kaha ke ye lazmi khuda he werna khuda ke alawa koi jalane ka azaab nahi deta....
    Darhakeekat ye usne tauheen ki hazrat Ali(ra) ki taleemat ki....
    ...
    Kher

    5 - that is shirk but if somebody goes there and offer surah fatah there for rooh ke isaale swaab

    Wahhabi , deobandi have absolutely no problem with iisaal-e-sawab , differece is on way of performing iisaal-e-sawab.

    For some it is in reciting prayers, offering hajj n umra from deceased , reciting quran n etc....

    for some it must be performed through particular ritual in particular days.

    6 - Somebody raise the issue of Abu talib.....This is a non issue if anyone of you have EVER READ Saheeh Bukhari , but unfortuantely we are so much influenced from persian that we dun even bother to read them.

    I would only copy Direct Hadiths from sahih Bukhari , No comment from My side
    according to the Sahi Hadith of Prophet Mohammad Peace Be Upon Him in Sahi Bukhari which is the most authentic and verified Book of Hadiths of Prophet Mohammad Peace Be Upon him

    1. Narrated Al-Abbas bin 'Abdul Muttalib: That he said to the Prophet "You have not been of any avail to your uncle (Abu Talib) (though) by Allah, he used to protect you and used to become angry on your behalf." The Prophet said, "He is in a shallow fire, and had It not been for me, he would have been in the bottom of the (Hell) Fire." (Book #58, Hadith #222)

    2. Narrated Al-Musaiyab: When Abu Talib was in his death bed, the Prophet went to him while Abu Jahl was sitting beside him. The Prophet said, "O my uncle! Say: None has the right to be worshipped except Allah, an expression I will defend your case with, before Allah." Abu Jahl and 'Abdullah bin Umaya said, "O Abu Talib! Will you leave the religion of 'Abdul Muttalib?" So they kept on saying this to him so that the last statement he said to them (before he died) was: "I am on the religion of 'Abdul Muttalib." Then the Prophet said, " I will keep on asking for Allah's Forgiveness for you unless I am forbidden to do so." Then the following Verse was revealed:-- "It is not fitting for the Prophet and the believers to ask Allah's Forgiveness for the pagans, even if they were their near relatives, after it has become clear to them that they are the dwellers of the (Hell) Fire." (9.113) The other Verse was also revealed:-- "(O Prophet!) Verily, you guide not whom you like, but Allah guides whom He will ......." (28.56) (Book #58, Hadith #223)

    3. Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: That he heard the Prophet when somebody mentioned his uncle (i.e. Abu Talib), saying, "Perhaps my intercession will be helpful to him on the Day of Resurrection so that he may be put in a shallow fire reaching only up to his ankles. His brain will boil from it." (Book #58, Hadith #224)

    4. Narrated 'Abdullah bin Al-Harith bin Naufal: Abbas bin 'Abdul Muttalib said, "O Allah's Apostle! Did you benefit Abu Talib with anything as he used to protect and take care of you, and used to become angry for you?" The Prophet said, "Yes, he is in a shallow place of Fire. But for me he would have been in the lowest part of the Fire." (Book #73, Hadith #227)


    7 - If someone is syed he must deserve a respect :-

    In islam , your ancestral background does not guarantee your entrance in heaven ....

    It is only the TAQWA which makes one muslim superior than other muslims...
    ...
    Even Abu jahal and Abu Lahab used to be Prophet's saw Uncle .... but they were misguided....

    Any syed can go in HELL if he is not righteous , does not follow Islamic believes....
    & Any Human Being , any achhot,shooder,arabi,ajami,hindu,bangali CAN enter into heaven if he/she accepts the truth of islam & follows it accordingly..

    syedi KIRDAR ahem cheez he...
    syedi JISM tumhe jannat me le ke nahi jaiga

    Thx
    Woooooow! cheekoo you are having such a vast knowledge about History and Islam. Aap ne tho hame sharmindah kar dia. We have not a fraction of that. But unfortunately those as you mentioned above, whose hearts and eyes are covered, they will not accept whatever proofs are given to them.

    God bless you. We should be Muslims first. There is only one Islam i,e Quran and Hadith. Beyond that whatever created by people should not be accepted unless they are according to Quran and Hadith.

    Now you see people are after Abdul Wahab without knowing what he was and what he did? by listening to propaganda by some particular country.

    May Allah put us on correct path. Aamin.

    mirchi added 25 Minutes and 53 Seconds later...

    Quote Originally Posted by gulshah View Post
    the person who do not beleive on wakea kerbala is non muslim i respect ur views many incidents can be wrong i agree with u asma but wakea kerbala is 100 percent wright u sad wahabis follow simple way of islam but what about their says that prophet muhammed aik aam insaan hein like us they always quote quranic terjema for it of a ayet but they did not include the full terjama which says that un per wahe utare gaee to kia asma aap per bhe wahee nazel hoee joo aap wahabeo ki tareef ker rahe hein u r saying u r not wahabi but u r posing their agenda here they follow simple islam and praising them i accept one of ur argument that in now days many of peers are jaali i accept it but what about sultan baho peers and data sahibs murshid i suggest u please read kashful majood written by data sahib he sad that there will be a time where the more peers will be fake the real peers will be hidden or murshid what u says because they will not be allowed to show themselves but this does not means making some body murshid is wrong in total sense it is wrong in now days as i quoted data sahibs baat he also sad that sirf sahibe ilm logo ko aslee murshid yaa peer ke mutaleq pata hoo ga hum jase gunghar logo ko nahe do u now data sahib ke bhe peer the sultan bhae ke bhe murshed the so u r right for peers for now days peers not the peers or murshids of old time so getting wasela is not wrong of somebody in my every prayer i says allah mein tum se syeda fatima, hussain, hassan, ali, muhammed ke waste se mangata hoon i never says that they will give me i says that these peoples are closer to u prophet muhammed is ur messenger and allah say joo bhe muhammed ke waslee se manga ga usse zaroor milee ga if allah saying then how giving some ones waseela is wrong eg, tv hamare leaee mallomat hasel kerne ka waseela ha internet bhee hai u cannot get the proper and patient maloomat without any waseela so waseela is must for every thing do not lose the wasela give wasela of muhammed , syeda fatima and others. if somebody goes to a mazaar says there peer baba aap he mujhe seb kuch deenge aap he mera akhri sahra hein now that is shirk but if somebody goes there and offer surah fatah there for rooh ke isaale swaab ke leaee and says suppose i am on data sahib derbar and i says aalah talah data saheb tumhare intahee naek bande the in ke waseele see mujhe dee de now thats wright and its not shirk because u did not ask directly from data sahib u just use his name because he was more pious person then u so there is high probabilty of qabolleet of ur dua the peoples dua sajda on minaars is wrong that is shirk so going to mezaar is not wrong but ur adaat eg sajda or example of above can make it shirk if it is done in a proper way like i sad then it is wrong. if going to mezaar is wrong then it must be baned to go to prophet muhammed mezaar because he
    Brother gulshah! That is actually the bone of contention. I don't think that any where in Quran it is written that Allah needs WASILA to accept your dua? No where the Prophet (SAW) has said that you ask from Allah through any person. Then it means unacceptable.

    The prophet SAW has told us the way to go to graveyard as well. It is not forbidden. It will remind you of your death. You can go to Qabristan, and say Quran and the SAWAB you give to those dead people but not to ask from them. God bless you.
    Last edited by mirchi; 04-15-2009 at 11:36 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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  12. #71
    gulshah is offline always follow your heart
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    Re: Waqia Sawat:Dr Israr Ahmad Speech:Girl Flogging 10-April

    even allah send durood on prophet muhammed but i asked wahabees they sad we do not send so r they muslims lol lol lol they are munafiqs like mirchi and cheekoo both of them are najdees munker like mirchi and cheko de seene de vich ben ke vajda de je teer ali wahabees call karbala war between two princes such a shameful peoples zakir naek was saying yazeed aleh salaam and saying he will go to jannat he is deobandi both these rubbish firqas are they man reason for destryoing islam they support terrorists like taleban eg, usama etc lashkare jhangavi etc

    gulshah added 5 Minutes and 58 Seconds later...

    and cheeko i will try to get a hadees which says that aag is haraam on ahlebat prophet sad that her nasb ket jae ga liken mera nahe on day of jannah i can give alot of examples to you but u r sick minded person chekoo like ghamdi ghamdi is same like u do not give the answer i read all of ur answers all r rubbish what is 85 percent how u got the figure mazallah tumhare uper wahee nazeel hoee

    gulshah added 1 Minutes and 46 Seconds later...

    and mirchi and chekoo i gave examples for waseela like tv and internet we watch this programme through internet so internet is our waseela every one needs waseela
    Last edited by gulshah; 04-16-2009 at 12:59 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

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  13. #72
    asim99 is offline Banned
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    Re: Waqia Sawat:Dr Israr Ahmad Speech:Girl Flogging 10-April

    Quote Originally Posted by gulshah View Post
    what is 85 percent how u got the figure mazallah tumhare uper wahee nazeel hoee
    lol .

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  14. #73
    mirchi's Avatar
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    Re: Waqia Sawat:Dr Israr Ahmad Speech:Girl Flogging 10-April

    Quote Originally Posted by gulshah View Post
    even allah send durood on prophet muhammed but i asked wahabees they sad we do not send so r they muslims lol lol lol they are munafiqs like mirchi and cheekoo both of them are najdees munker like mirchi and cheko de seene de vich ben ke vajda de je teer ali wahabees call karbala war between two princes such a shameful peoples zakir naek was saying yazeed aleh salaam and saying he will go to jannat he is deobandi both these rubbish firqas are they man reason for destryoing islam they support terrorists like taleban eg, usama etc lashkare jhangavi etc

    gulshah added 5 Minutes and 58 Seconds later...

    and cheeko i will try to get a hadees which says that aag is haraam on ahlebat prophet sad that her nasb ket jae ga liken mera nahe on day of jannah i can give alot of examples to you but u r sick minded person chekoo like ghamdi ghamdi is same like u do not give the answer i read all of ur answers all r rubbish what is 85 percent how u got the figure mazallah tumhare uper wahee nazeel hoee
    SUMMUN, BUKMUN, UMYUN! I cannot even think of saying something wrong about Hazrat Ali and his family.

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  15. #74
    gulshah is offline always follow your heart
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    Re: Waqia Sawat:Dr Israr Ahmad Speech:Girl Flogging 10-April

    thats munafqet of wahabees and deobandees ask ur friend zaker naek who sad it go to you tube and chek it and tahir ul qadri slap on his by giving alot of hadees example tahir ul qadri zindabad always give fantastic example of ahel bet well done tahir uncle

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  16. #75
    cheekooo's Avatar
    cheekooo is offline Still together.Still lost
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    Re: Waqia Sawat:Dr Israr Ahmad Speech:Girl Flogging 10-April

    1- About Percentage of MainStream Muslims Vs Persians :-

    Polulation Comparison

    funny thing to note that given link shows there is a ratio of 93% to 7% in favour of mainstream muslims but i doubled the population of persians just being on a safe side :-)

    & remember all Mainstream muslims (hanfi,shafai,maliki,hanbli,sufi etc) have almost same aqaids with little bit variation in understanding ... n i have mentioned a hint about noori-bashar issue in previous post....its just the matter of misunderstanding...otherwise there is not a big difference as far as believes are concerned.

    2- Syedo pe aag haram he :-

    :-)

    me iska kia jawab dun....

    :-)

    abhi iska Litmus test kerte hein... chalo munna choley(stove) pe beth ke dikhao :-)

    Now Serious :-

    If you have this claim that Syed per aag haram he OR in other words they cant go in HELL

    that means they all are infalliable ,free from sins , they all are masoom , just like prophets :-)

    Otherwise Any person who commits sin will face the consequences in hereafter irrespective of his ancestral background..


    kuch amal ker le bhai.....kaheen isi aasrey pe na reh jana ke aag hi nahi lage gi...

    han Aik bande pe AAG asar nahi kerti ..... he is HELL-BOY :-) lolzzz

    wo film dekhna samjh me aa jaiga

    ainda ye bat likhna chor doge ke hum Fire-proof hein

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  17. #76
    asim99 is offline Banned
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    Re: Waqia Sawat:Dr Israr Ahmad Speech:Girl Flogging 10-April

    Quote Originally Posted by cheekooo View Post
    this looks like a silly hate-mongering wahabi website...

    i've never heard the term persian, what does it mean?

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  18. #77
    gulshah is offline always follow your heart
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    Re: Waqia Sawat:Dr Israr Ahmad Speech:Girl Flogging 10-April

    i will tryt to find the hadees which slaps on ur munafiq face chekoo and i did not says anything about stove fire i sad about jahanum fire and it inshallah be proved eg, once a person has to give hadeea to a syed he is like chekoo low minded person he found a syed but the syed has every sin of the society sharab kebab and auret so the chekoo thinks y i give him the money ishould have to give it to the pios syed syeds finacial conditions were very bad he met with a padri who gave him money in the night person sleeps he saw a dream that there is a judgement day he was going towards a mahel when he reach to the door prophet muhammed stopped him he sad y u stopping me pbuh sad that u did not give hadeea to my aulad he needs it u r a muslim u should feel a shame of ur self that a padri gave him a money after knowing that he belongs to syed family the person sad to muhammed pbuh that ur aulad person have every buraee of the world sharab kebab auret prophet sad that yeh mera aur uska mamala hai woh hai to mere aulad mein se although woh aaq shuda aulad hai kionke petree se uter gaya but u have been ordered to gave him money not to criticise him the person was very rich in the world but refused to go in the jannet mehal the padri was poor man in the world in the night he also saw the dream that pbuh welcome him in the jannet mehal door because he respect his aulad in the world next day he accepted islam so isse kehte hein syed ki shaan syed gughaar tha liken padri ne uss ki izzet ke uss ki pbuh ke aulad honee kee nate checko ke terah tanee nahee deaee suppose checkoo u love a girl and the girl has extra martial affairs with some one else but if ur love is true u will not think like ordinary peoples lerke to bed kirdaar hai u will love him becuase ur love is true which have no concern with his face kirdaar so prophet said that mein tum mein do cheeze choor ke jaa raha hoon aik quran aur dosri ahele baet means syed in se piyaar keroo dunya aur akhret mein surharoo hoo jaoo gee u can say me i am the wrost person in the world may be i am i accept i am a very gunaghar person but if u follow the above wakea love with syed is not attached to thier kirdaar u just follow pbuh instructions ahle baet see mohabbet keroo beshek woh gunghar hoon as the example proved it i will wait for ur answer if i sad bad things in anger then i am sorry

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  19. #78
    stainlesssmile is offline Member
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    Re: Waqia Sawat:Dr Israr Ahmad Speech:Girl Flogging 10-April

    Quote Originally Posted by gulshah View Post
    this doctor is a kafir look at his cruel face
    Is this a language from a muslim to such a scholar ....
    I really doubt this gentleman.

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  20. #79
    gulshah is offline always follow your heart
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    Re: Waqia Sawat:Dr Israr Ahmad Speech:Girl Flogging 10-April

    i will talk u latter

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    pakipatriot is offline Member
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    Re: Waqia Sawat:Dr Israr Ahmad Speech:Girl Flogging 10-April

    This is a clear proof of why Muslims are suppressed these days.. and the answer is because they keep fighting themselves!!

    No matter what aqeeda you follow, you are a muslim! and no one has the right to say any muslim a non muslim or munafiq! only Allah knows everything and we will be accountable for ourselves in the day of judgement, not for others, so first we should rectify and cleanse ourselves by gaining the proper knowledge of Islam.

    Please guys we all are united muslims, we should show muslim brotherhood, no matter what aqeeda others follow but still they are our brothers.. so please stop taunting and criticizing other aqeedas.. respect others aqeedas as you respect yours. I follow hanafi-deobandi school of thought but it doesnt mean that I start saying that all other aqeedahs are false and stuff like that, and the same goes for other muslims. The only thing that we need to do is ask Allah for forgiveness and to show us the right and true path.. Allah knows the best right, so if we are on a wrong aqeedah, Allah will put us on the right inshAllah. I am not saying that other school of thoughts are not right, only Allah knows who is right and who is wrong.

    May Allah unite all muslims inshAllah and show all of us the right path.
    Remember me in prayers.

    Mohammad Fahad Aijaz

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