Ghamdi 1st December 2008 - Tasawr-e-Khuda 1

Tasawr-e-Khuda

[NoToRi0uS]

Secondly Notorious - I thought this is a good discussion forum and I don't think there is any harm in discussing Islamic personalities and so called Islamic scholars. This is definitely not a sectarian issue as ghamdi claims to be a non-sectarian personality,

I mentioned this issue coz most of the discussions end up at sectarian conflicts..!!

[landaleav]

Originally Posted by syedakbar

haha Dear Landaleav u seem to be a good joker mate.The takhallus thing is quite funny but please whenever defending a so called allegation please mention the edition numer and page number or infact post some link next time.
U seemed to be a bit confused, u say that ghamdi tribe broke a peace deal and ghamdi got impressed with it. how on earth can a Muslim be impressed by someother guys action of breaking a peace deal ! !!???lolssssssss. I thought ISLAM IS A MESSAGE OF PEACE.
Anyways mate coming to ur query about the constantinopole thing I will repeat my point again. There is a Ahadeeth which fortunately ghamdi accepts (cos he rejects some of them at his own will) which states that whoever will be the first one amongst the Muslim Ummah to conquer constantinopole ( which is known as Istanbul nowadays presently in modern turkey ) will enter Jannah (paradise). This was a prediction by our PROPHET P.B.U.H.
Now my point is that according to ur beloved ghamdi as yazeed was in that army so he enters Jannah as well.Although I would like to add that there is an Ijma among Muslim Scholars throughout Islamic History that this particular feat was achieved by Muhammed Fateh ( which was infact several years after yazeed died!).
Now my friend coming back to ur query that ur direct contact with ghamdi on Aaj tv is impossible, well my friend I have earlier stated and asked u to go to al-mawrid website and click the ask a question box and get ur answer directly. This is a more wiser approach rather than wasting peoples money on phone and be kept on hold.

Here is the beginning of ghamdi's hatred in ur heart.The following link will lead u to a critical analysis book against ghamdi written in urdu [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
friends who can't translate get some help from educated Pakistanis who can read and understand my National Language.
Please remember this is my first step and I will continue to expose ghamdi!

You can download that Ishraq from the following link, it is August 2007 edition.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Apart from this, you are still alleging Ghamidi Sahib on the issue of Constantinople without giving any evidence.

By the way, the book you quoted is very similar to what Tanzeem printed against Ghamidi Sahib, because both criticize Ghamidi Sahib by making the traditional opinions as the basis of refutation. Personally, I just wish if there would be a person of the caliber of Ghamidi Sahib who would be able to criticize him because most of the current critics are either too much enthusiastic about refuting just from traditionalist perspective or they are not ready to understand the actual stance of Ghamidi at all.

Ma'Salaam!

[landaleav]

Originally Posted by syedakbar

Dear Landaleav Thank goodness I am not of the calibre of ghamdi!lolzzzz.
Well its very sad to know ur ideology about traditionalists as if they all follow the wrong religion and have wrong views about ISLAM. Don't forget that before ghamdi came all of our ancestors were believing in the traditionalists views, which means they might be wrong according to ghamdi's so called modernist approach. Isn't introducing a new thing in ISLAM known as Bidah??? This means that before u heard about ghamdi's views u might be believing in the wrong ISLAM, mate then please I am sure u might have read the KALIMAH again to become a proper Muslim after hearing ghamdi's views.

By the way, when Ibn Taymiyyah asked the orthodoxy of his time to rethink our stances in the light of the Qur'an and Sunnah, he was put in prison where he passed most of his life. This is the problem with all the traditionalists, they are more keen to keep the traditions than the actual religion that originates from the Qur'an and Sunnah.

Originally Posted by syedakbar

By the way u still haven't shown me any proof that ghamdi doesn't think that yazeed was in the army which conquered constantinopole.

How can I show you something that doesn't exist in the first place. You started this topic, it is your job to show it. For example, if you say that there is monster living in my room. And I ask you the proof and then you say back to me, you haven't proved that there is no monster in my room. So, how can I nullify something which doesn't exist in the first place.

[casper]

Originally Posted by NoToRi0uS

am not fan of anyone but the link above patsed by you have nothing in it except a spread thread written by someone else without any reference.

Remember 2 things.
Don't go for sectarian conflicts at this forum
& don't go without references.
If you find something wrong in his book.
Quote here page number, chapter number, & book name
otherwise don't blame any one , by blaming 1 you are denying education of Islam at its Ist step.
Wa,Salam

@Noto, I agree with your opinion and you have responded to this topic very nicely.

@syedakbar
1)I appreciate your interest in religion and the time and effort that you have put into this matter.


2) Please do not inflate trivial matters of intellectual disagreement. Second coming of Jesus, is it such a big issue? I do not think it one of the pillars of religion so why divide ourselves over it?

I assume that you (like me) are a mere student of religion and are just trying to follow the right path. So please do not be so definitive about one opinion or another. Important thing is the spirit of acquiring knowledge from whomsoever it is coming, it includes a beardless scholar as well; we have plenty of full beard hypocrites already ;)

All of us, including all the leading scholars, and the imams are as well cannot give you a definitive answer as they are not Prophets themselves, so seek knowledge from all of them and follow what you consider is right. The "Second coming of Jesus" may be a topic of an intellectual debate but the direct instruction of not indulging ourselves into "Tafarukka" is beyond any debate.

3) Both the links that you have posted contain very personalized objections on Ghamidi, instead of an intellectual discourse.

You have quoted a number of religious references, because of my limited knowledge I am unable to comment on them.

Dont you think the Ghamidi must have known them as well? So is he doing it deliberately to misguide people in order to fulfill some zionist agenda? or he has eliminated these references from his intellectual reasoning because of some problem at a deeper level of understanding.

Based on the videos of Ghamidi, I think if you write to him with your questions he would be happy to clarify things. Just give it a try.

4) Please take a few deep breaths before composing a reply May Allah guide us all.

[landaleav]

Originally Posted by syedakbar

Here here looks like u have already started playing in my hands. I was expecting u to mention ibn taymiyyah earlier but finally u have now mate.Now that u have mentioned his name so please also inform all the readers that when and why and who was against him including the government and ruler of that time.
Interestingly its a bit funny a modernist giving example of ibn taymiyyah who lived many hundred years ago!
Well the example about monster doesn't makes sense . Are u equating yazeeed with a monster! please clarify mate.Well according to ur views I am wrong and am the blaming party so why don't u defend my allegation.
I will provide the readers with proofs once u inform us about ghamdi's views about yazeed with proofs.Remember I have stated it clearly that I will go slowly.

I didn't say that Yazeed is a monster and you took the example completely wrong. I simply said that I don't know anything about Ghamidi Sahib's opinion about Yazid except from his student. You are the knowledgeable person, please inform us with some proof.

Regarding Ibn Taymiyyah, even though he came centuries ago, but he definitely re-evaluated certain concepts in Islam. Unfortunately, his followers Abdul Wahab and Hassan Al Banna didn't continue his tradition and instead created a fifth school of thought, which was definitely not Ibn Taymiyyah's intention.

[casper]

@syedakbar

dude the problem with your opinion is that you are blowing things way out of proportion, my point about the second coming of Jesus and the case with qadianis is drastically different.

I am unable to understand that why good would come to you or to any one by declaring Ghamidi as pure evil. The only think he asks of you is to think for yourself instead of revering any mollana sahib. I think declaring his ideologies as "wrong" based on whatever limited knowledge you have gathered is quite an arrogant response.

Please do not see things only in Black and White, rather see in shades of Gray. No scholar, may it be Ghamidi or any of your favorite scholars can give a definitive answer on all the subjects.

If you disagree with his opinion just do not follow him, simple! why making such a fuss about it.

[landaleav]

Originally Posted by syedakbar

Dear Landaleav if u know the views of ghamdi's student about yazeed then please let us know!

I have already presented this opinion in the following section:

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Originally Posted by syedakbar

I think u are a bit perplexed and confused about ghamddi's views, coz u indirectly condemn abdul wahhab's creation of fifth school of thought whereas, ghamdi himself as created a fifth school of thought as he doesn't follow us Sunni's four Schools of Thought.Yes he doesn't follow Hanafi, Shafi , Maliki and Hanbali Schools of Thought.

Actually, when someone tries to understand the religion in the light of basic sources, it can bring new results which are susceptible to criticism for the next generations. But when you make a person in history as a major reference point, it tantamounts to creating a new sect. Just like it happened with the opinions of four imams. Originally, these were just opinions, but people made them the reference point for religious matters. More and so, these people call themselves from the name of the Imams i.e. Hanafi, Hanbali etc. However, Salafis are following opinions of Aslaf (from the Muslim history we have got), which I think is again not the correct source as well. The only source should be the Qur'an and the Sunnah only.

Originally Posted by syedakbar

Interestingly he supports the claim that there is noe second coming of HAZRAT ISA A.S. by quoting that there is no such Ahadeeth in Malik -e-Muwatta but on the other hand doesn't follow the Maliki School of Thought.

Imam Malik was a scholar. All his work should be seen in the light of basic sources. If it goes along with the basic sources, we'll accept it, if not then we have the right to criticize. You don't need to belong to any sect to use someone's knowledge.

Originally Posted by syedakbar

By the way u still haven't informed us about ibn taymiyyah's history. How , why when and by whom was he put into prison- this will be enough for us to expose ibn taymiyyah!
More to follow in this current series of ghamdi exposing!

I've mentioned the main point of Ibn Taymiyyah that he had differences with the orthodoxy. Some of his opinions are actually different from all the four schools of thought. So if he could differ with the Ulema in his time, why can't we differ now. If the arguments of some Aalim are strong, it will make a big footprint soon, Inshallah!

[m kashif khan]

Dear Syed Akbar, I have gone though all the posts and the thought stuck to my head was " am I hearing another Fatwa".
could one argue if Allah will decide the merit of his/her faith. whether its Yazed or Ghamdi....
Its quite lenient to stay in our babble society and refuse/prejudge any other point of view. Its just an other way of thinking, may be wrong in you case, may be not for others..

[landaleav]

Originally Posted by syedakbar

Dear ghamdi supporters I am still waiting for ur reply.Looks like u have finally accepted ur biggest mistake of ur life yet!

No body has time to go in circles with you bro! If you read again, I've already answered your questions but you have this pre-judged idea which you can't get rid off. For example, why you have to agree with Imam Malik on every account. Is he a Prophet? He is a scholar and like every scholar, he is fallible like every one else including Ghamidi Sahib. In many things he is right, and in somethings he is wrong.

So I don't have time to go through all my arguments again, may be someone else here can continue this discussion if you insist.

[landaleav]

Originally Posted by syedakbar

U really are a stubborn person mate and have no clue to what u have mentioned.U are answerless to the points raised by me.
I agree that Imam Malik is not a Prophet and may be wrong in somethings and same is the way ghamdi is not a Prophet and maybe wrong!!!
But I would also like to add that coz ghamdi is wrong then he and his followers should accept their mistakes, coz only Bold and Big personalities accept their mistakes!
To add on ghamdi's should be asked who was shafique ahmed and what was his relation with him? Also he should be informed that we know that he used to be called and infact is still known as kaku-shah kaku-zayee by those who know his past and present.
People in his home town now say proudly that we knew(predicted) from the very first day that he will be no good for himself and the people which has proved to be true!!!
More exposing of ghamdi to follow!

Ghamidi Sahib has already discussed the issue with his name in the following Ishraq with all these things which you are mentioning here. I've already mentioned it before in a previous post, only if you've read my posts.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

[marsad]

Dear Syed Akbar!
I guess from ur sentence "except of course Wahabbism" that Ghamidi Sb is not against Wahabis
If so, it is not tru because he has criticised Wahabis in detail in his lecture "Aam Mazhabi Fikr ka Ilmi Tajzia"
This lecture is available from Al-Mawrid Shop (51-K Model Town Lahore Pakistan"
I tried my best to upload lecture here but failed can u guide me to upload it
thanks

[Haiderali]

Originally Posted by syedakbar

Dear Marsad, Thanks for taking part in this thought provoking discussion. I do agree with u that ghamdi might have criticized wahhabism, but I would allso like to inform u that in this modern era there are now splits even within wahhabism.
Initially they were known as salafis which got divided into two in early 1900. The Muslim Brotherhood whose one of the main members was Syed Qutub called himself a salafi but was against the salafism followed by the so called royal family of saud (their capital is riyadh). This saud family call their country saudi arabia which literally means saud's arabia. They had with the help of lawrence of arabia ( a british agent) had captured Hejaz ( which includes Makkah Mukarramah and Madina Shareef).
Today wahhabism is divided into quite a few varieties. Some are accepted by mainstream ISLAMIC Scholars all over the world and some are not!
Although we haven't listened to this lecture of ghamdi's criticism about wahabbism so we cannot comment on it. But then again it also depends what he has said and which type of wahhabism has he criticized.
I am ready to help u mate, but let me know in which form do u have this lecture e.g. cd, desktop, e.t.c.

Syed Akbar bhai mujhe aap ki baatain parh kar bohat acha laga hai. Allah nay aap ko bohat zor e byan ata kiya hai. Aap isi tarah Deen e Islam ki khidmat kartay rahain. Allah aap ko lambi umar ata karay.
Main aksar mukhtalif logon ki baatain sun kar confuse hota rehta hoon. Mujhe koi asan hal bata'ain jis say main is mushkil say nikal aa'oon aur mujh par haqeeqat wazeh ho jaye. Main agar Quran paak ki koi tafseer parhna chahoon to konsi tafseer parhoon.
Aaj kal aik sahib Geo kay program choraha main aa kar mukhtalif lafzon ka matlab batatay hain, un kay baray main aap ka kiya khyal hai?