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Thread: The more we marry our cousins, the worse our genes are warped

      
   
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    The more we marry our cousins, the worse our genes are warped

    The more we marry our cousins, the worse our genes are warped
    By Mahnoor Sherazee
    Published: July 23, 2011



    COMPARISON: 1 in 10,000 Pakistanis have microcephally. 1 in 1m Caucasian people have it.

    ISLAMABAD: In cultures that are more conservative and private, people tend to stay close to what and who they know. It is no wonder then that intermarrying or consanguinity (marriages within close blood relatives) persists as a popular practice in Pakistan as well as among many Muslims worldwide.
    In traditional societies, marriage is seen more as a union of two families rather than simply between two individuals. It is with this mindset that elders have for years married their children to relatives, with the most common choice being first and second cousins.
    According to a study titled ‘The impact of consanguinity and inbreeding on perinatal mortality in Karachi’ by Dr Rafat Hussain, published in 1998, consanguinity is practised by about 63% of Pakistanis, of which over 80% are between first cousins. When looked at scientifically, first cousins share 1/8th of their genes inherited from a common ancestor. There are also unions between couples who are ‘double-first cousins’ – meaning they are related from their maternal as well as paternal side.
    However, with the security of marrying within the family to preserve close ties and in many cases inheritance, comes the looming threat of adverse biological conditions for offspring. Among these are microcephaly and a further mutation, autosomal recessive primary microcephaly (ARP-MCPH) which is clinically described as a congenital neurological disorder. This means that the baby’s head is at least three times smaller than what it should be. Mild to severe mental retardation is also a risk.
    Dr Abdul Hameed of the Institute of Biomedical and Genetic Engineering in Islamabad has been looking into this phenomenon with scientists from the Kohat University of Science and Technology. He and his colleagues, Shamim Saleha, Muhammad Ajmal, M Jamil and M Nasir found that this genetic mutation is surfacing in members of the Pakhtun pool at an alarmingly high level – 43% of families in northern Pakistan with microcephaly have autosomal recessive primary microcephaly.
    According to a 2005 study, about one in 10,000 Pakistanis have microcephaly, compared to one in one million in the Caucasian (or white) population. “The high incidence should set alarms [ringing] for trends to change,” Hameed told The Express Tribune, adding that if consanguineous or in-breeding continues at the same rate, they will soon reach a “dangerous level”.
    But surely, the Pakhtun are not the only ones who intermarry in Pakistan and by that reasoning the ‘underdeveloped head’ condition should surface in other genetic pools. “Of course, inter- marriages are practised by Punjabis and other communities as well,” explained Hameed. “However it is not as often as seen in the Pakhtun. This is why the severity of their situation is at a relatively higher level.” Some reasons include geographical proximity; tribes are settled in one area and do not want their daughters to move too far away from home.
    Underdeveloped mental capacities are always a part of microcephaly but to varying degrees – from very mild to moderate. Very rarely is it more than moderate and accompanied by epilepsy or fits. “Usually the patients with microcephaly are easy to handle and they are able to learn several self-help skills depending upon the environment and economic status of parents etc.,” explained Dr Jawad Hassan, who is an assistant professor with the Department of Biochemistry at Shifa College of Medicine.
    In some communities, the extent of consanguinity and inbreeding is so deeply entrenched that marrying within the tribe is also not recommended. While the mutation in either or both parent is not genetic, marrying a close blood relative will spread the mutation. If both parents carry the mutated gene, the child has a 25% chance of being affected. “If one parent is a carrier for the mutation or the defective copy of the chromosome and the other partner is ‘normal’, their children will be 100% ‘normal’,” Hameed explained. In short, the condition can be completely avoided if people with a family history avoid intermarrying.
    An international expert added to the corpus of research by pointing out that the good news is that as family sizes go down, double first cousin marriages in particular will become increasingly difficult.
    Anyone who is concerned can be easily tested for the appearance of the mutation free of cost at some centres in Lahore and Islamabad.
    Published in The Express Tribune, July 23rd, 2011.

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    Re: The more we marry our cousins, the worse our genes are warped

    Quote Originally Posted by jumrose View Post
    App ki baat bhi theek hai.Per ashahid nay bhi tu haad ki hoye hai.

    Really there is no 'haad' for him as he goes beyond any imaginable haad. There is nothing within Islam that he has not attacked in a most degrading way. It becomes beyond toleration.
    Showing my some stand for Islam, I do take on an image of using tough language. But Allah knows it is only for the reason of disrespect that he deliberately invents against Islam. Otherwise I normally even now don't read his posts just a line or two are sufficient to show the gist. That is the crux of the point.

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    Re: The more we marry our cousins, the worse our genes are warped

    I can Understand

    bt let them support negativity

    bt we should stick to our agenda i.e Always, Everything good
    Quote Originally Posted by jumrose View Post
    I like the way you think.But when you love someone or something and if some one abuse it again and again tu ghusa a hi jata hai.But i totally agree with what you say.

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    Re: The more we marry our cousins, the worse our genes are warped

    I Respect to ur feelings abt Islam

    bt Allah ne khud mana kiya he k don't speak bad, lughw or fazool, fehash baton se perhaiz kren

    or jb Ap Islam or Allah ki khatir wohi kam krtey hen jis se Allah ne sakhti se mana kiya he to.......

    Ur Every good deed multiplies with zero........n nothing left
    Quote Originally Posted by Pakistani_First View Post
    Really there is no 'haad' for him as he goes beyond any imaginable haad. There is nothing within Islam that he has not attacked in a most degrading way. It becomes beyond toleration.
    Showing my some stand for Islam, I do take on an image of using tough language. But Allah knows it is only for the reason of disrespect that he deliberately invents against Islam. Otherwise I normally even now don't read his posts just a line or two are sufficient to show the gist. That is the crux of the point.

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    Re: The more we marry our cousins, the worse our genes are warped

    Quote Originally Posted by Arzu-e-Jana`N View Post
    I Respect to ur feelings abt Islam

    bt Allah ne khud mana kiya he k don't speak bad, lughw or fazool, fehash baton se perhaiz kren

    or jb Ap Islam or Allah ki khatir wohi kam krtey hen jis se Allah ne sakhti se mana kiya he to.......

    Ur Every good deed multiplies with zero........n nothing left
    From now on you are my Shaikh and I am your Mureed. But taking Hijaab is a condition for that.

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    Re: The more we marry our cousins, the worse our genes are warped

    hahaha lahola wala

    I don't belive in sheikh mureed concept wt s it?

    Dnt worry I use to take hijab
    Quote Originally Posted by Pakistani_First View Post
    From now on you are my Shaikh and I am your Mureed. But taking Hijaab is a condition for that.

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    Re: The more we marry our cousins, the worse our genes are warped

    How about we talk about the topic on hand ?

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    Re: The more we marry our cousins, the worse our genes are warped

    Quote Originally Posted by Pakistani_First View Post
    From now on you are my Shaikh and I am your Mureed. But taking Hijaab is a condition for that.
    ................she have to sacrifice her hat.

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    Re: The more we marry our cousins, the worse our genes are warped

    Quote Originally Posted by Pakistani_First View Post
    Really there is no 'haad' for him as he goes beyond any imaginable haad. There is nothing within Islam that he has not attacked in a most degrading way. It becomes beyond toleration.
    Showing my some stand for Islam, I do take on an image of using tough language. But Allah knows it is only for the reason of disrespect that he deliberately invents against Islam. Otherwise I normally even now don't read his posts just a line or two are sufficient to show the gist. That is the crux of the point.
    I know your feelings cos mine are same.but i do control myself very hard not to say any harsh words for him cos i just remember that our beloved Nabi pbuh never abused anyone even they use to say bad words to him about islam and Allah.But we are not up to Muhammed PBUH level so we do slip sumtime.Only Allah can forgive us.

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    Re: The more we marry our cousins, the worse our genes are warped

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightrunner View Post
    How about we talk about the topic on hand ?
    To be honest, after my previous post on the subject matter, all issues should have been answered, done and dusted by that. We are using our presence here, occassionally, as a social chit chat, joke and an occassional swipe as well. Fed up with quarrels and bust ups.

    Final addition would be : Marry your cousins only if you don't have any other options left to find a person outside the family circle. Or if the cousin is attractive beyond belief or rich beyong measure then don't look outside. Marry her before someone other takes over.

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    Re: The more we marry our cousins, the worse our genes are warped

    DAT WAS SUCH A TYPICAL THINKING ... U cud have given a better Advice

    Quote Originally Posted by Pakistani_First View Post
    To be honest, after my previous post on the subject matter, all issues should have been answered, done and dusted by that. We are using our presence here, occassionally, as a social chit chat, joke and an occassional swipe as well. Fed up with quarrels and bust ups.

    Final addition would be : Marry your cousins only if you don't have any other options left to find a person outside the family circle. Or if the cousin is attractive beyond belief or rich beyong measure then don't look outside. Marry her before someone other takes over.

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    Re: The more we marry our cousins, the worse our genes are warped

    Quote Originally Posted by P0!s0N !vy View Post
    DAT WAS SUCH A TYPICAL THINKING ... U cud have given a better Advice
    I have to say 'ji saieen-ji'. Bandah is obedient. Shall comply next time. Arrow is out of the kamaan now.

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    Re: The more we marry our cousins, the worse our genes are warped

    hahah!! Nxt time ask dis sister before u let ur arrow out of da bow ..!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pakistani_First View Post
    I have to say 'ji saieen-ji'. Bandah is obedient. Shall comply next time. Arrow is out of the kamaan now.

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    Re: The more we marry our cousins, the worse our genes are warped

    As per the topic says, i would like to say one thing hereAs people say "Naak ko idhar say ghumma kar pakrain yaa udhar say kiya fark parta hai" , but i say some times it does matter. Like in our society on the ground reality most families have unwritten rules to not get engage out of family , clan , tribe. Sect. Etc.etc. ,,,,,,and majority is still illiterate so...........if u take them This medical proof i guess they will reject it by giving Nightrunner point of evidence that nithing happend from generation sso nothing going to happen again. And most of all islam does not discourage it.and Because this medical research will be treated as a black mailing too so people will pissed of it.


    I guess we just need to encourage people that IF the opportunity comes from out of family ,tribe etc then we should not discourage them but we should encourage to get involve with societies.

    On the contrary .......personally as on ground in our societies families do not deliberatly go out and find marriage proposals sooooo first choice obviously becomes first hand relatives because of lot of reasons. This benefit is can not be arranged such easily to every guy and girl to jump out to open society and find your pair out of first relatives.

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    Re: The more we marry our cousins, the worse our genes are warped

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightrunner View Post
    I think Islam is quiet on this subject. I didnt read anything that says it does allow or doesnt allow. You just can not marry a mehram that is all I know.

    Enlighten me if theres anything else there religiously. Now lets talk about scientifically or medically. I will just talk about the experience of seeing people, in my family before like before my generation, the marriage had to be done strictly within relatives. You could not marry outside relatives or you could get kicked out lol. But now it is happening but still I didnt see retarded kids, or any strong cases like mentioned above. I have seen double cousin marriages too, but i didnt see many retarded kids walking around in our relatives or anything like that. So, I am still trying to figure out what exactly is the problem in this whole thing. I thought both the Husband and Wife has ot be positive for something to move that thing genetically in their kids.
    I should remind those who dont have a background in biology. People within the same family tend to have similar genes because genes are passed on from one generation to another. So if a man has a recessive gene (the one that does not manifest if its alone) then other people in his family (including his female cousins) are more likely to have another recessive genes. If they both marry, then the disease will become dominant in the child, it will appear in the child even though it was not present in the parents.

    In response to nightrunner: this does not mean that you will see many children with diseases in a small sample of one family. It only means that compared to marrying someone outside of the family, cousin marriages are more likely to produce diseases. This has been shown in numerous studies over several decades. All this was obviously not known in early centuries, hence cousin marriages were not discouraged in Islam. But you will also see (and correct me here if I am wrong), prophet PBUH did not marry any of his cousins. They were all outside of his family. I suppose this tradition is a cultural thing and has nothing to do with religion (like many other traditions that have creeped into religion but have nothing to do with religion but bec of the long history people strongly believe that those are part of the religion rather than the culture).

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    Re: The more we marry our cousins, the worse our genes are warped

    From Islamic Point of view the basic principle has been that marriage between first-cousins is permitted. Though it is permitted but it is not recommended, rather marriage outside the family circle is encouraged. This in nutshell is the Islamic Principle.

    For those who would like to know about the subject of Marriage in some more details then I have a link here, which I have found quite useful. Have a look:

    Islamic Voice


    ---------- Post added at 11:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:48 PM ----------

    Marriages that are forbidden

    Q). Is it permissible to be married to two sisters at the same rime? There is a case of a person who is bound to have two sisters as his wives, and he seems to be very religious. What is the result of his action?

    A).
    It is forbidden for any man to be married to two sisters at the same time. It is well known that Islam allows a man to have up to four wives at the same time, but there are restrictions on marriage, which prohibit certain marriages. Among these prohibitions we find the marriage to two sisters at the same time. This prohibition is stated clearly in Verse 23 of Surah 4. The Prophet has added to this a prohibition on marriage to a woman and her aunt, whether on her father's or mother’s side, or the reverse situation of being married to a woman and then to try to marry her niece. Such marriage is not permissible.

    However, if one's wife dies, one may marry her sister or her aunt or niece. It is often the case that such a marriage is found helpful, particularly when the man has young children who need to be looked after. Their aunt or another close relative to their deceased mother may care for them better than any stepmother.
    I do not understand your other point about a person who is bound to be married to two sisters at the same time. Why is he bound to do something, which God has prohibited? To whom is he obliged to do such a thing? Anyway, the first of these two sisters whom he married is his wife, while the other is not. His relationship with her is not a marriage, even though there is a marriage contract between them. You say he appears to be religious, but a person who violates God’s law in this way is not religious, no matter what he appears to be like.


    ---------- Post added at 11:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:49 PM ----------

    Marriage with first cousins: rulings without basis

    Q). During my visit to India, I met a scholar who says that marriage with first cousins is not allowed in Islam, and that a special concession was given only to the prophet. He quotes Verse 50 of surah 33, "Al Ahzab", in support of his claim. If this were true, it makes millions of marriages illegal and millions of children illegitimate. Please explain.
    M.A.Khan, Buraidha

    A).
    It is strange that this person, whom you describe as a scholar, cites in support of his view a verse which starts with the following words: "Prophet, we have made lawful to you ..." This is to say that the verse is concerned with permission, not prohibition. I would have thought that his view, which tries to restrict certain marriages, should seek in evidence a verse, which outlines prohibition of certain marriages. It is well known that prohibited marriages are outlined in detail in Verses 22, 23 and 24 of Surah 4, entitled "Women", or "An Nisaa ". The first of these verses starts with a clear order: "Do not marry women whom your fathers had married...The second begins with a simiclear prohibition: Forbidden to you in marriage are your mothers, daughters, etc. When the list is complete, the third of these verse states: And lawful to you are all women beyond these, for you to seek out, offering them of your possessions, taking them in honest wedlock, and not in fornication, etc." Moreover, such marriages are lawful according to the practice of the Prophet who married his own daughter, Fatimah, to his cousin, Ali. Had there been any restriction on the marriage of cousins, the Prophet would not have allowed such a marriage to go through. Your "scholar" is, therefore, out on a limb when he makes such a claim.

    Now let us look at the verse he quotes in support of his argument. Its meaning may be given in translation as follows: Prophet! We have made lawful to you your wives to whom you have paid their dowers, as well as those whom your right hand has come to possess from among the captives of war whom Allah has bestowed upon you. And We have made lawful to you the daughters of your paternal uncles and aunts, and the daughters of your maternal uncles and aunts, who have migrated with you (to Madinah); and any believing woman who offers herself freely to the Prophet and whom the Prophet might be willing to wed: this being but a privilege for you, and not for other believers. We have already made known what We have enjoined upon them with regard to their wives and those whom their right hands may possess.
    This verse is certainly meant to outline to the Prophet certain privileges. It may not be construed. However, as restricting to other Muslims what Allah has made lawful to the Prophet except in the case where He specifies so. It is significant that the verse tells the Prophet that his wives have been made lawful to him. This is not a superfluous statement, because Allah does not use any superfluous words. This is simply a reminder to the Prophet of the grace Allah has shown him. As for his cousins, the Prophet was allowed only those of his cousins who migrated with him to Madinah. It is reported that he could not marry Umm Hani a cousin of his who had not migrated to Madinah.
    The verse certainly includes a special privilege given to the prophet and not given to any other believer. But this privilege is restricted to one case, namely, that of a woman who may offer herself freely to the prophet. He may marry her without the need to give her a dower. It should be said that several women made such an offer to the prophet, but he married none of them. Some of them he recommended to some of his companions, and such marriages went through in the normal way, with the prophet asking the prospective husband to pay a dower to the woman he is marrying and with a marriage contract made in the normal Islamic way.
    When we say that this is a privilege to the prophet only, we mean that it is not permissible for a Muslim woman to offer herself freely to any man. Such a restriction is operative in order not to allow any abuse of the marriage system. If a woman makes such an offer to a believer, she does not become his wife unless a marriage contract is made between them in the presence of her father or guardian and at least two witnesses, and a dower is specified to be paid by the man to her.


    ---------- Post added 07-24-2011 at 12:04 AM ---------- Previous post was 07-23-2011 at 11:56 PM ----------

    Marriage between kin

    Q). What does Shariah say regarding the marriage between kin? Is there any Hadith or tradition preventing marriage between kin, such as the uncle's daughter, because we know that medical scientists do not advise such marriage?
    (Name withheld), Jeddah

    A).
    The women who are prohibited for marriage are mentioned in the Holy Qur'anic verse: "Prohibited to you (for marriage) are: Your mothers, daughters, sisters, father's sisters, mother's sisters, brother's daughters, sister's daughters foster-mothers (who gave you suck), foster-sisters, your wives' mothers, your step-daughters under your guardianship, born of your wives to whom you have gone in - No prohibition if you have not gone in - (those who have been), wives of your sons proceeding from your loins and two sisters in wedlock at one and the same time, except for what is past. Also (prohibited are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess." Other women are permissible and one can marry his uncle's daughter.

    However, it is reprehensible so as to safeguard the health of the children. It has been narrated that Caliph Omar Bin Khattab (may Allah be pleased with him) saw an Arabian tribe called Banu Al-Sayeb whose bodies were very weak and emaciated because they used to marry their kins. Caliph Omar told them to marry strangers.
    Muslim jurists also say that if the marriage of one's kin ends up in divorce, this may severe the relations between kin which is forbidden in Islam.


    ---------- Post added at 12:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:04 AM ----------

    A marriage that is against Islamic teachings

    Q).
    I understand that I am a Christian, I cannot marry my Muslim fiancée unless I become a Muslim, while a Muslim man may marry a Christian woman who is allowed to retain her faith. May I know the reason behind this? There are several reasons, which prevent me from embracing Islam, yet I wish to marry this lady whom I have been supporting when she was studying. What happens if I require my fiancée to convert to Christianity? On the other hand, what is the likely solution if we get a civil marriage? May I further ask whether I can consider the money I have paid for her studies as her dower?

    (Name and address withheld)

    A).
    It is true that a Muslim woman may not marry a follower of any religion other than Islam. A Muslim man may marry Christian or a Jewish woman. The reason for the difference in the rules is two-fold.

    Islam recognizes that it has a common area with the other two religions, and it requires its followers to respect the beliefs of other religions, Hence, if a Muslim man marries a Christian or a Jewish woman, he may not put her under any pressure to convert to Islam. Indeed he should allow her freedom of worship and respect her religious observances. It is not guaranteed that followers of other religions would do the same if they marry Muslim women. There are other considerations relating to the status of the children and the perceived weakness of women in many cultures and societies.
    You are certainly entitled to maintain your faith, but you may not insist on a chaof Islamic rules to fulfill your purpose. The Islamic rules make your marriage to a Muslim woman impossible unless you become a Muslim. This must be a genuine conversion to Islam, not a mere pretension to satisfy certain formalities. If you want to contravene these rules, your marriage is not valid. Of course you can arrange for a civil marriage, and the civil law in your country may sanction such a marriage, but your "wife" would not be lawfully wedded to you from the Islamic point of view. If the woman in question converts to Christianity, she is considered an apostate. The Church may sanction the marriage, but she would remain an apostate. Her family is highly likely to disown her completely in either of these situations.
    If you marry her legally, which means that you become a Muslim, you should know that Islamic marriage requires the presence of her father or guardian, two witnesses and the payment of a dower. The contract itself consists of a commitment and acceptance. The dower must be something that brings the woman a certain benefit. Your support of her studies may be offset against the marriage if that support was in the form of a loan. If it was a gift, no Muslim is allowed to claim back a gift he had given. However a dower need not be any large amount. You may agree with your future wife to give her one riyal as a dower. If this is acceptable to her, well and good.


    ---------- Post added at 12:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:06 AM ----------

    Marriage to a non Muslim

    Q).
    My friend wants to marry a Hindu girl who says that she would convert to Islam after the marriage. Can he do that?

    (Name and address witfiheld)


    A).
    If your friend wants his marriage to be valid, his intended wife must adopt Islam before the marriage contract is done. Otherwise the marriage cannot go through. It is not possible for a Muslim to get married to a woman who follows any religion other than Islam, Christianity or Judaism. Since this woman does not follow any of these religions, her marriage to your friend is not valid. If she adopts Islam first, she is no longer a Hindu. She will then be a Muslim and as such, there will be no hindrance to prevent her marriage to your friend.

    As for the second part of your question it is not true that consummation of the marriage must take place on the first night, I am surprised that some people would suggest that this is an Islamic requirement for the validity of the marriage. There is no such requirement.
    Having said that, I may add that it is better for the bride and her family that the marriage should be consummated as soon as possible after the wedding. But this is a matter of preference, not a duty.

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    Re: The more we marry our cousins, the worse our genes are warped

    Quote Originally Posted by Momin420 View Post
    Nope, why should we bother with these 'half baked' scientific theories, Islam has allowed cousin marriages so there is no need to ponder on this further. Using brain in matters of religion is HARAM to us Muslims!!!! My fellow Momins will soon upload numerous religious scriptures to silence this infidel propaganda.

    And I will soon start an affair with my cousin to defy these western stooges. Down with these plotters against Muslim family values!!!!
    LOL..you said that in Jealously of Islam otherwise as Pakistani First correctly said Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) advised people to marry across the tribes and societies

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    Re: The more we marry our cousins, the worse our genes are warped

    Well, to make things easier, i want to suggest one simple solution to Hakomat e Pakistan, Make the lab test part of Nikkah Nama, Both Bride and Groon should go through even they are First, Second cousins or outsider, And if the lab reports conflicts, simply they shouldnt allowed to get Married.

  20. #38
    Human is offline Senior Member
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    Re: The more we marry our cousins, the worse our genes are warped

    It has nothing to do with Islam. Islam allows such marriages but that doesn't mean that you can't marry outside your family; these inter-family marriages are more of a cultural thing and the ignorance of some rich and greedy who want to keep their inheritance/assets within the family (british royal family is an example, but they have learnt from it). Scientists find new things everyday, and sometimes even negate their earlier findings; and also it takes generations of such marriages to affect genes. The rule in Islam is simple, marry healthy people; so marry healthy men and women.

  21. #39
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    Re: The more we marry our cousins, the worse our genes are warped

    Quote Originally Posted by Momin420 View Post
    Nope, why should we bother with these 'half baked' scientific theories, Islam has allowed cousin marriages so there is no need to ponder on this further. Using brain in matters of religion is HARAM to us Muslims!!!! My fellow Momins will soon upload numerous religious scriptures to silence this infidel propaganda.

    And I will soon start an affair with my cousin to defy these western stooges. Down with these plotters against Muslim family values!!!!
    I don't think marriage with cousins is prefered in Islam. It is allowed but not prefered. And I personally know people whose children have medical difficulties due to cousin marriages.
    Please avoide as much as possible.

  22. #40
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    javeria is offline Expert Member
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    Re: The more we marry our cousins, the worse our genes are warped

    Quote Originally Posted by Pakistani_First View Post
    To be honest, after my previous post on the subject matter, all issues should have been answered, done and dusted by that. We are using our presence here, occassionally, as a social chit chat, joke and an occassional swipe as well. Fed up with quarrels and bust ups.

    Final addition would be : Marry your cousins only if you don't have any other options left to find a person outside the family circle. Or if the cousin is attractive beyond belief or rich beyong measure then don't look outside. Marry her before someone other takes over.

    Lollzzz.......!!!!!!

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