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Thread: Why "YES" and why "NO" to Jamaat e Islami?

      
   
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    iamamuslim's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Why "YES" and why "NO" to Jamaat e Islami?

    السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

    Dear brothers and sisters

    after a lot of thinking, I am almost on verge of joining Jamaat e Islami because i have reached the result that the way of Jamaat e Islami ,described by Maulana Maudoodi is most feasible way for bringing ISLAM to play central rule in state of PAKISTAN...

    Please i want your sincere opinions and objections that why i should join or why i should not join Jamaat e islami???
    and please do keep in mind that I believe establishment of ALLAH's rule on ALLAH's land is obligatory..If you feel there is a better party for this purpose,please do describe its methodology where that party is ahead of JI

    If you have objection,please quote with reference
    because ALLAH says:

    يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا إِن جَاءَكُمْ فَاسِقٌ بِنَبَإٍ فَتَبَيَّنُوا أَن تُصِيبُوا قَوْمًا بِجَهَالَةٍ فَتُصْبِحُوا عَلَى مَا فَعَلْتُمْ نَادِمِينَ


    اے ایمان والو! اگر تمہارے پاس کوئی فاسق (شخص) کوئی خبر لائے تو خوب تحقیق کر لیا کرو (ایسا نہ ہو) کہ تم کسی قوم کو لاعلمی میں (ناحق) تکلیف پہنچا بیٹھو، پھر تم اپنے کئے پر پچھتاتے رہ جاؤ
    49:6


    please stick to topic and avoid abusive language
    If and where i feel that objection posed by you people is wrong ,i shall try to reply in best possible way...and if i feel objection posed is actually reasonable,it will be endorsed


    جزاک الله خیر
    May ALLAH reward you in best possible way

    ----------------------------
    some people dont know about motto of Jamaat exactly and they are just commenting on what they have heard..here is text from official website of JI about what is dawat of jamaat..Please spend few minutes to read from here

    Link:
    جماعت اسلامی اردو ویب سائٹ

    ہماری دعوت

    فلسفہ جماعت

    جماعت اسلامی ہی کیوں؟

    آئین جماعت

    جماعت میں شمولیت کیسے؟



    -------------------
    Quote Originally Posted by londoner007 View Post
    hi
    you are asking us for our opinion and advice for you weather you join JI or not
    i would ask you first that what made you decide to join ji what is logic and arguments you have to support this
    so plz shed some light on your thoughts about ji and im sure you studied about all other parties before making your mind up to join the ji so i would ask you that what you think about other parties too..
    On what basis i say Jamaat is better than other current working parties:

    Bro
    1-i just dont think,i believe establishment of ALLAH 's Deen on ALLAH's land is obligatory(Farz)..so no consideration of secular parties.e.g. ANP,MQM,PPP (no offence..my personal opinion)

    2-one major question is WHY NOT PTI???????

    PTI is working well for Pakistan but it has nowhere in its motto that it will establish Islamic laws and will decide every thing as guided by Islam..

    3-PML(N) and others......No because PML has been in govt fora long time and they did some thing but not at all what they could do for Islam...PML N had 2/3 majority..they were in a position to establish ISLAM in its actual spirit but they never did because its not their motto
    ---------------------
    4-Regarding parties and movements working fo Islam and in reply to

    Quote Originally Posted by Ath3r View Post
    You requested us to talk with the reference regarding the JI philosophy of implementation islam in the country..

    my dear brother you are requested to please first u share with me the reference from Quran or Hadees regarding the philosophy adopted by JI for islamization in the country....... Jis dagar pay JI chaal rahi hay wo Quran or Hadees may kahan say sabit hay???[COLOR="Silver"]
    ,i shall quote brother Muhammad_is_the_way who has given very good elaboration
    Following are pathway adapted by different people for establishment of Islam

    1)Al-Qaeda, Taliban, Indonesian Islamic Movement, Phillipines Abu-Sayaf group etc. : These groups are quite shallow in their thought process and religious argumentation. Their motivation is based on revenge and rage which is also not acceptable in Islam and these are not recommended in any case because they have damaged the image of Islam even if they might be sincere in some cases.

    2) Hizb-AlTahrir, Tanzeem-e-Islami, Ibaad-ur-Rehmaan Lebanon, (Somewhat Tableeghi Jamaat): These groups have rejected the modern methodology of bringing change and governance, and they try to stick to the orthodox methods according to their understanding. Unfortunately, they dont enjoy reasonable support, spark, motivation and their way forward is almost endless. No prescribed method to move forward in current scenarios. Although their literary and broadcast work is very valuable, they do not pose a lifeline threat to the Anti-Islam regimes throughout the world.

    3) Jamaat-e-Islami, Ikhwaan Al Muslimoon, Justice party Turkey, Hamas Palestine, HizbULLAH Lebanon: These parties represent the mainstream Islamist movements. They have sought to fight the modern revolutionary movements with modern methods. Since democracy has brought an awakening in the recent human history and has also delivered in governance, these parties have settled to fight the Anti-Islam power centres in every field, whether it be elections, press, debates, literature, public demonstrations, organized party structures, social work etc. Their idea is that Sahaba RAT were the most able people in every field on the face of the Earth, whether it be Politics, War, foreign relations, Governance, Social services, commitment, integrity, Organization etc. So, ALLAH granted them with victory because of their ability and hardwork, commitment. And that we will not be rewarded with power unless we become better than prevailing rulers in all the fields. Jamaat-e-Islami and Ikhwaan-al-Muslimoon are the fathers of all these organizations in the world. Jamaat-e-Islami dominating the central Asia, South Asia and Far-East(like Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Burma, Malaysia, Indonesia, China, Nepal etc.) and Ikhwaan dominating the whole of Arab World.


    The parties listed above are the ones which strive to bring ALLAH's order on Earth, there are other pseudo Islamic right-winged political parties but their intent is not that clearly specied 'Iqamat-e-Deen'. The other sectarian religious parties are also not considered as Islamic movements.


    The question still remains which one to join. Certainly not the 1st group. My personal opinion is the third group because Human development is at a level that we will not be able gain power by only force and by neglecting Democracy. And why neglect democracy, if we can convince people towards Islam. Why would a person not give vote to Islam if recites the kalima of Islam. The question is the when will these movements be able to free humans from communal, sub-nationalist, criminal landlords and parties. And reflect the true picture of Islam to a common man. It certainly demands Islah of these movements as well as more participation of youth in them.

    "And we shall continue to bring our signs in-front of their visions, until it is clear to them that this certainly is AL-HAQ" (ALQUR'AN)[/quote]
    --------------------
    There may be q question why JUI(Jamiat Ulmae Islam)?that too is political party working for Islam

    regardless of objections on Molana Fazal ur Rehman ,i have difference in principle....Jamiat Ulema e Islam is strictly a jamaat of Deobandi school of thought ...while in Jamaat e Islami,people of all schools of thoughts are welcomed because Jamaat

    ہمارا مسلک
    خدا کی بندگی جس پر ہم پورے نظام زندگی کوقائم کرناچاہتے ہیں،اس کے بارے میں بھی ہمارا ایک واضح مسلک ہے اور وہ مختلف گروہوں کو مختلف وجوہ سے پسند نہیں آتا۔ہمارے نزدیک ہر شخص اس کا مختار نہیں ہے کہ اپنی مرضی اور خواہش کے مطابق جس طرح چاہے خدا کی بندگی کرے بلکہ اس کی ایک ہی صحیح صورت ہے اور وہ اس شریعت کی پابندی ہے جو محمد ﷺ لے کر آئے ہیں۔ اس شریعت کے معاملے میں کسی مسلمان کے اس حق کو ہم تسلیم نہیں کرتے کہ اس کی جن باتوں کوچاہے قبول کرے اور جن باتوں کو چاہے رد کردے۔ بلکہ ہم اسلام کے معنی ہی اطاعت حکمِ خداوندی اوراتباع شریعتِ محمدی ﷺ کے سمجھتے ہیں۔ شریعت کے علم کا ذریعہ ہمارے نزدیک صرف قرآن پاک نہیں ہے بلکہ حدیث رسولﷺ بھی ہے اور قرآن و حدیث سے استدلال کا صحیح طریقہ ہمارے نزدیک یہ نہیں ہے کہ آدمی اپنے نظریات پر خداور رسول کی ہدایات کو ڈھالے بلکہ یہ ہے کہ آدمی اپنے نظریات کو خدا اور رسول کی ہدایات پر ڈھالے پھر ہم نہ تو تقلید جامد کے قائل ہیں جس میں اجتہاد کی جگہ نہ ہو اور نہ ایسے اجتہاد کے قائل ہیں کہ ہر بعد کی نسل اپنے سے پہلے کی نسلوں کے سارے کام پر پانی پھیر دے اور بالکل نئے سرے سے ساری عمارت اٹھانے کی کوشش کرے۔
    اس مسلک کا ہر جزو ایسا ہے جس سے ہماری قوم کا کوئی نہ کوئی گروہ ہم سے ناراض ہے۔ کوئی سرے سے خدا کی بندگی کا قائل ہی نہیں ہے۔ کوئی شریعت سے بے نیاز ہو کر اپنی صواب دید کے مطابق خدا کی بندگی کرنا چاہتا ہے۔ کوئی شریعت میں اپنا اختیار چاہتا ہے اور اس کا مطالبہ یہ ہے کہ جوکچھ اسے پسند ہے وہ اس شریت میں رہے اور جو اسے پسند نہیں ہے وہ شریعت سے خارج ہوجائے۔ کوئی قرآن و حدیث سے قطع نظر کر کے اپنے من گھڑت ا اصولوں کا نام اسلام رکھے ہوئے ہے کوئی حدیث کو چھوڑ کر صرف قرآن کو مانتا ہے ۔کوئی اصول اور نظریات کہیں باہر سے لے آیا ہے یا اپنے دل سے گھڑ لایا ہے اور پھر زبردستی قرآن و حدیث کے ارشادات کو ان پر ڈھالنے کی کوشش کررہا ہے۔ کسی کوتقلید جامد پر اصرار ہے اور کوئی تمام پچھلے آئمہ کے کارناموں کودریا برد کرکے نیا اجتہاد کرنا چاہتا ہے۔
    اختلاف مسلک کا حق
    ہماراراستہ ان سب گروہوں سے الگ ہے اور ہم مجبور ہیں کہ ان سے اختلاف بھی کریں اور ان کے علی الرغم اپنے مسلک کی تبلیغ بھی کریں اسی طرح دوسرے کے بھی اس حق کو ہم تسلیم کرتے ہیں کہ وہ جس معاملے میں بھی ہم کوغلطی پر سمجھتے ہیں اس میں ہم سے اختلاف کریں اور ہمارے علی الرغم اپنے مسلک کی تبلیغ کریں۔ اب ہر شخص جو ہندوستان و پاکستان میں رہتا ہے اور مختلف گروہوں کے لٹریچر پر نظر رکھتا ہے ۔ خود ہی یہ دیکھ سکتا ہے کہ اپنی تنقید و تبلیغ میں ہمارا رویہ کیارہا ہے اور ہمارے مخالفین نے جواب میں کس تہذیب و دیانت اور معقولیت کاثبوت دیا ہے۔
    جماعت اسلامی کا مقصد ،تاریخ اور لائحہ عمل:ص ۲۰

    السلام عليكم ورحمة الله وبركاته

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    Re: Why "YES" and why "NO" to Jamaat e Islami?

    i highly respect the sincere leadership of JI in effort of bringing Allah's laws in the country.
    but i'm convinced that you cannot do it if you leave the way of Muhammad SAW.

    Participation in election does not allow you to change the system, rather it is part of the system. Yes, they can improve the system, but if you truly want to implements Allah's law, then you need to bring the whole new system in place of current democratic system.

    my sincere suggestion to you is:
    1- if your intention is to improve the current democratic setup, then it is fine for you to join JI ( though we don't have good past record of JI winning in elections)
    2- if you want to implement Allah's law (when i say Allah's law, i don't mean pick and choose) and convinced to recognize Allah as Al-Malik (not the people!), then you have to stick to the way of Muhammad SAW, you will have to struggle for the revolution...becoming a part of system would bound you within the boundaries of that system and would never make you able to change it.

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    dachiexpress is offline Banned
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    Re: Why "YES" and why "NO" to Jamaat e Islami?

    k h s h a a m d e e d j a m a t i o

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    ab bas b kar do yar
     
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    Re: Why "YES" and why "NO" to Jamaat e Islami?

    وعلیکم ا سلام۔ بہت اچھی تھریڈ ہے۔ دوسرے صورت میں آپ جماعت اسلامی کو موضوع گفتگوں کرنا چاہتے ہیں۔ بہت اچھی کوشش ہے اور اس طرح ہم دوسری سیاسی جماعتوں پر بھی گفتگوں کر سکتے ہیں۔ اور کیا ہی اچھا ہوتا کہ آپ کچھ لکھتے کہ آپ جماعت اسلامی کو کیوں سپورٹ کرتے ین۔
    سب سے پہلے یہ سمجھنا ضروری ہے کہ ہم یہ جان لیں کہ جب ہم کسی سیاسی جماعت کو ووٹ دیتے ہیں یا سپورٹ کرتے ہیں تو اس کی ایک ہی وجہ ہونی چاہیے کہ ہماری نظر میں وہ پارٹی پاکستان کی خدمت بہتر کر سکتی ہے دوسروں کی نسبت۔ اور اگر کوئی اس کے علاوہ کسی پارٹی کو سپورٹ کرتا ہے تو میری نظر میں وہ مطلب پرست ہے، جاہل ہے یا پھر غلام ہے۔
    کسی بھی پارٹی پر گفتگوں کرنی ہو تو ضروری ہے کہ ذاتی نفرت و عناد اور مخالفت ایک سائیڈ پر رکھ کر صرف علمی بنیاد پر اور دلائل کے ساتھ گفتگوں کی جائے۔
    جماعت اسلامی بھی ایک سیاسی جماعت ہے اور اس میں بھی کئی خوبیاں اور خامیاں ہے۔
    خوبیاں:
    جماعت سلامی صیح معنوں میں جمہوری پارٹی ہے اور اس پر کسی ایک خاندان کا یا شخص کا راج نہیں ہے۔
    جماعت اسلامی ایک منظم جماعت ہے۔
    جماعت اسلامی کا ایک خدمت خلق کا شعبہ بھی ہے جو کہ بہت اچھا کام کررہا ہے۔
    خامیاں:
    بد قسمتی سے جماعت اسلامی پر امریکا سے پیسے لینے، اسٹیبلشمنٹ کا ساتھ دینے جیسے الزامات ہیں اور جماعت اسلامی کا رویہ اس بات پر خمازی کرتا ہے کہ اس میں کچھ سچائی بھی ہے۔
    اسلامی جمعیت طلبہ وہ واحد جمعیت ہے کہ جس کے پاس اسلحہ ہے اور یہ اپنے فیصلے زبردستی رائج کرنے کی کوشش کرتے ہیں جو کہ غیر قانونی اور غیر اسلامی ہے۔
    جماعت اسلامی ابھی تک طالبان کو سپورٹ کرتی ہے اور اس پر دو ٹوک فیصلہ نہیں کر پا رہی۔
    جماعت اسلامی صحیح معنوں میں اسلام کی بات نہیں کرتی کہ جس کے تحت لوگوں کو تبلیغ سے اسلام کی طرف لے کر آیا جائے۔
    صوبہ خیبر پختونخواہ میں جماعت اسلامی کی حکومت تھی مگر انہوں نے بل بورڈ سائن گرانے سے بدنامی مول لی اور صیح معنوں میں کوئی عملی اقدامات نہیں کیے۔ حسبہ بل پاس کرانے کی کوشش کی مگر اس سے پہلے اگر وہ صحیح معنوں میں لوگوں کے لیے کام کرتے اور پھر اس پر ریفرنڈم کرواتے تو ان کو ٹھوس بنیاد ملتی۔
    غرض کہ یہ میرے چند پوائنٹ ہے جو کہ جلدی میں لکھے گئے ہیں اور یہ خالصتاَ میری اپنی رائے ہے جس سے آپ اختلاف کر سکتے ہیں اور ڈیبیٹ کو آگے بڑھائے گے تو مزید گفتگوں کی جائے گی۔


    ---------- Post added at 06:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:04 PM ----------

    Sorry brother, with all respect i will differ with you. If you study Islamic history the you will realized that there are different types of governance. but i want to give reference only turkey. Turkey was very far away from Islam but when Tayyab became PM, he served people very well and he said clearly to religious parties that dont try to stop people by force but preach. now he is really converting to islamization.

    Quote Originally Posted by yacir View Post
    i highly respect the sincere leadership of JI in effort of bringing Allah's laws in the country.
    but i'm convinced that you cannot do it if you leave the way of Muhammad SAW.

    Participation in election does not allow you to change the system, rather it is part of the system. Yes, they can improve the system, but if you truly want to implements Allah's law, then you need to bring the whole new system in place of current democratic system.

    my sincere suggestion to you is:
    1- if your intention is to improve the current democratic setup, then it is fine for you to join JI ( though we don't have good past record of JI winning in elections)
    2- if you want to implement Allah's law (when i say Allah's law, i don't mean pick and choose) and convinced to recognize Allah as Al-Malik (not the people!), then you have to stick to the way of Muhammad SAW, you will have to struggle for the revolution...becoming a part of system would bound you within the boundaries of that system and would never make you able to change it.

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    yacir's Avatar
    yacir is offline Expert Member
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    kahin behtar tha ... Apne
    hisse ki koi shamma jalatay
    jatay!
     
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    Re: Why "YES" and why "NO" to Jamaat e Islami?

    Quote Originally Posted by khanaafaq View Post

    Sorry brother, with all respect i will differ with you. If you study Islamic history the you will realized that there are different types of governance. but i want to give reference only turkey. Turkey was very far away from Islam but when Tayyab became PM, he served people very well and he said clearly to religious parties that dont try to stop people by force but preach. now he is really converting to islamization.
    very good example of Turkey. and is exactly what i mentioned on my comment that you can "improve" the system. and that is what Erdogan is doing.
    He made a great improvements in turkey's economics, but has he succeed to eliminate riba from economy as yet?.

    when do you say "islamization", what do you really mean? "part-time islam" or the Islam taught by Muhammad SAW 1400 year ago?
    I also mentioned in my comment is that if you want to bring islam as whole, not just pick and chose, then you cannot do it without following the footstep of Muhammad SAW.

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    Re: Why "YES" and why "NO" to Jamaat e Islami?

    Quote Originally Posted by yacir View Post
    i highly respect the sincere leadership of JI in effort of bringing Allah's laws in the country.
    but i'm convinced that you cannot do it if you leave the way of Muhammad SAW.

    Participation in election does not allow you to change the system, rather it is part of the system. Yes, they can improve the system, but if you truly want to implements Allah's law, then you need to bring the whole new system in place of current democratic system.

    my sincere suggestion to you is:
    1- if your intention is to improve the current democratic setup, then it is fine for you to join JI ( though we don't have good past record of JI winning in elections)
    2- if you want to implement Allah's law (when i say Allah's law, i don't mean pick and choose) and convinced to recognize Allah as Al-Malik (not the people!), then you have to stick to the way of Muhammad SAW, you will have to struggle for the revolution...becoming a part of system would bound you within the boundaries of that system and would never make you able to change it.
    Brother will you please elaborate what pathway is most feasible and plausible if you think JI cant bring change in system through vote???????

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    Re: Why "YES" and why "NO" to Jamaat e Islami?

    Quote Originally Posted by iamamuslim View Post
    Brother will you please elaborate what pathway is most feasible and plausible if you think JI cant bring change in system through vote???????
    Sorry for jumping in. Just read the biography of the Prophet (saw). Not just read, imbibe and reflect; not one book, multiple books. Do it for a year, you will know what to do !!!!!!!

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    Re: Why "YES" and why "NO" to Jamaat e Islami?

    Quote Originally Posted by khanaafaq View Post
    وعلیکم ا سلام۔ بہت اچھی تھریڈ ہے۔ دوسرے صورت میں آپ جماعت اسلامی کو موضوع گفتگوں کرنا چاہتے ہیں۔ بہت اچھی کوشش ہے اور اس طرح ہم دوسری سیاسی جماعتوں پر بھی گفتگوں کر سکتے ہیں۔ اور کیا ہی اچھا ہوتا کہ آپ کچھ لکھتے کہ آپ جماعت اسلامی کو کیوں سپورٹ کرتے ین۔
    سب سے پہلے یہ سمجھنا ضروری ہے کہ ہم یہ جان لیں کہ جب ہم کسی سیاسی جماعت کو ووٹ دیتے ہیں یا سپورٹ کرتے ہیں تو اس کی ایک ہی وجہ ہونی چاہیے کہ ہماری نظر میں وہ پارٹی پاکستان کی خدمت بہتر کر سکتی ہے دوسروں کی نسبت۔ اور اگر کوئی اس کے علاوہ کسی پارٹی کو سپورٹ کرتا ہے تو میری نظر میں وہ مطلب پرست ہے، جاہل ہے یا پھر غلام ہے۔
    کسی بھی پارٹی پر گفتگوں کرنی ہو تو ضروری ہے کہ ذاتی نفرت و عناد اور مخالفت ایک سائیڈ پر رکھ کر صرف علمی بنیاد پر اور دلائل کے ساتھ گفتگوں کی جائے۔
    جماعت اسلامی بھی ایک سیاسی جماعت ہے اور اس میں بھی کئی خوبیاں اور خامیاں ہے۔
    خوبیاں:
    جماعت سلامی صیح معنوں میں جمہوری پارٹی ہے اور اس پر کسی ایک خاندان کا یا شخص کا راج نہیں ہے۔
    جماعت اسلامی ایک منظم جماعت ہے۔
    جماعت اسلامی کا ایک خدمت خلق کا شعبہ بھی ہے جو کہ بہت اچھا کام کررہا ہے۔
    خامیاں:
    بد قسمتی سے جماعت اسلامی پر امریکا سے پیسے لینے، اسٹیبلشمنٹ کا ساتھ دینے جیسے الزامات ہیں اور جماعت اسلامی کا رویہ اس بات پر خمازی کرتا ہے کہ اس میں کچھ سچائی بھی ہے۔
    اسلامی جمعیت طلبہ وہ واحد جمعیت ہے کہ جس کے پاس اسلحہ ہے اور یہ اپنے فیصلے زبردستی رائج کرنے کی کوشش کرتے ہیں جو کہ غیر قانونی اور غیر اسلامی ہے۔
    جماعت اسلامی ابھی تک طالبان کو سپورٹ کرتی ہے اور اس پر دو ٹوک فیصلہ نہیں کر پا رہی۔
    جماعت اسلامی صحیح معنوں میں اسلام کی بات نہیں کرتی کہ جس کے تحت لوگوں کو تبلیغ سے اسلام کی طرف لے کر آیا جائے۔
    صوبہ خیبر پختونخواہ میں جماعت اسلامی کی حکومت تھی مگر انہوں نے بل بورڈ سائن گرانے سے بدنامی مول لی اور صیح معنوں میں کوئی عملی اقدامات نہیں کیے۔ حسبہ بل پاس کرانے کی کوشش کی مگر اس سے پہلے اگر وہ صحیح معنوں میں لوگوں کے لیے کام کرتے اور پھر اس پر ریفرنڈم کرواتے تو ان کو ٹھوس بنیاد ملتی۔
    غرض کہ یہ میرے چند پوائنٹ ہے جو کہ جلدی میں لکھے گئے ہیں اور یہ خالصتاَ میری اپنی رائے ہے جس سے آپ اختلاف کر سکتے ہیں اور ڈیبیٹ کو آگے بڑھائے گے تو مزید گفتگوں کی جائے گی۔
    [COLOR="Silver"]
    With due respect, i made topic of JI because no other political party has motto that they want to bring Islam as central role of state....

    for your criticism ,i requseted to please give reference....blame game is common in our politics because of illeterate leaders

    Taking money from USA...any reference jamaat took money and invested it in proliferation of jamaat?????

    Jamiat has guns.......can u plz reference how many of these incidents happened in 50 years of jamiat history as compared to any other political party wing...???

    i already said no body or party is perfect..i am in search of better party working for Islam...


    Hisba bill per refrundum before passing it.....????Bro if refrendum is still needed ,then what is purpose of elections????as far as i know,after winning elections ,any party can change law if it has majority because its already representing the public

    ---------- Post added at 11:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:55 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by khanaafaq View Post
    وعلیکم ا سلام۔ بہت اچھی تھریڈ ہے۔ دوسرے صورت میں آپ جماعت اسلامی کو موضوع گفتگوں کرنا چاہتے ہیں۔ بہت اچھی کوشش ہے اور اس طرح ہم دوسری سیاسی جماعتوں پر بھی گفتگوں کر سکتے ہیں۔ اور کیا ہی اچھا ہوتا کہ آپ کچھ لکھتے کہ آپ جماعت اسلامی کو کیوں سپورٹ کرتے ین۔
    سب سے پہلے یہ سمجھنا ضروری ہے کہ ہم یہ جان لیں کہ جب ہم کسی سیاسی جماعت کو ووٹ دیتے ہیں یا سپورٹ کرتے ہیں تو اس کی ایک ہی وجہ ہونی چاہیے کہ ہماری نظر میں وہ پارٹی پاکستان کی خدمت بہتر کر سکتی ہے دوسروں کی نسبت۔ اور اگر کوئی اس کے علاوہ کسی پارٹی کو سپورٹ کرتا ہے تو میری نظر میں وہ مطلب پرست ہے، جاہل ہے یا پھر غلام ہے۔
    کسی بھی پارٹی پر گفتگوں کرنی ہو تو ضروری ہے کہ ذاتی نفرت و عناد اور مخالفت ایک سائیڈ پر رکھ کر صرف علمی بنیاد پر اور دلائل کے ساتھ گفتگوں کی جائے۔
    جماعت اسلامی بھی ایک سیاسی جماعت ہے اور اس میں بھی کئی خوبیاں اور خامیاں ہے۔
    خوبیاں:
    جماعت سلامی صیح معنوں میں جمہوری پارٹی ہے اور اس پر کسی ایک خاندان کا یا شخص کا راج نہیں ہے۔
    جماعت اسلامی ایک منظم جماعت ہے۔
    جماعت اسلامی کا ایک خدمت خلق کا شعبہ بھی ہے جو کہ بہت اچھا کام کررہا ہے۔
    خامیاں:
    بد قسمتی سے جماعت اسلامی پر امریکا سے پیسے لینے، اسٹیبلشمنٹ کا ساتھ دینے جیسے الزامات ہیں اور جماعت اسلامی کا رویہ اس بات پر خمازی کرتا ہے کہ اس میں کچھ سچائی بھی ہے۔
    اسلامی جمعیت طلبہ وہ واحد جمعیت ہے کہ جس کے پاس اسلحہ ہے اور یہ اپنے فیصلے زبردستی رائج کرنے کی کوشش کرتے ہیں جو کہ غیر قانونی اور غیر اسلامی ہے۔
    جماعت اسلامی ابھی تک طالبان کو سپورٹ کرتی ہے اور اس پر دو ٹوک فیصلہ نہیں کر پا رہی۔
    جماعت اسلامی صحیح معنوں میں اسلام کی بات نہیں کرتی کہ جس کے تحت لوگوں کو تبلیغ سے اسلام کی طرف لے کر آیا جائے۔
    صوبہ خیبر پختونخواہ میں جماعت اسلامی کی حکومت تھی مگر انہوں نے بل بورڈ سائن گرانے سے بدنامی مول لی اور صیح معنوں میں کوئی عملی اقدامات نہیں کیے۔ حسبہ بل پاس کرانے کی کوشش کی مگر اس سے پہلے اگر وہ صحیح معنوں میں لوگوں کے لیے کام کرتے اور پھر اس پر ریفرنڈم کرواتے تو ان کو ٹھوس بنیاد ملتی۔
    غرض کہ یہ میرے چند پوائنٹ ہے جو کہ جلدی میں لکھے گئے ہیں اور یہ خالصتاَ میری اپنی رائے ہے جس سے آپ اختلاف کر سکتے ہیں اور ڈیبیٹ کو آگے بڑھائے گے تو مزید گفتگوں کی جائے گی۔


    ---------- Post added at 06:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:04 PM ----------

    Sorry brother, with all respect i will differ with you. If you study Islamic history the you will realized that there are different types of governance. but i want to give reference only turkey. Turkey was very far away from Islam but when Tayyab became PM, he served people very well and he said clearly to religious parties that dont try to stop people by force but preach. now he is really converting to islamization.
    Quote Originally Posted by cancer View Post
    Sorry for jumping in. Just read the biography of the Prophet (saw). Not just read, imbibe and reflect; not one book, multiple books. Do it for a year, you will know what to do !!!!!!!
    Bro i have been doing this for one and half year.....please elaborate if u know the best strategy ?????

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    Re: Why "YES" and why "NO" to Jamaat e Islami?

    I am happy that debate is going in better way and we are doing discussion sensibly. Tayyab is going on his track and i think change cant be achieved in a year or two. he is doing every thing step by step. Islamization mean a real islamic society not like taliban nor like UAE or other islamic country. islamic society mean where people follow islamic values in prayers (ibadaat) and social life. your mistakes that we separated rights of Allah and rights of people. Islam is only one religion, who teach every part of life. if you r ruler, subjects, father, wife, son, daughter, owner, worker, neighbour even every status or relation you have you can get light from Islam.
    Unfortunately we use term of 'bring islam' is wrong. isam came 1400 years ago, we can establish islamic laws and islamic values.
    debate was on JI and i hope you will put some light on him as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by yacir View Post
    very good example of Turkey. and is exactly what i mentioned on my comment that you can "improve" the system. and that is what Erdogan is doing.
    He made a great improvements in turkey's economics, but has he succeed to eliminate riba from economy as yet?.

    when do you say "islamization", what do you really mean? "part-time islam" or the Islam taught by Muhammad SAW 1400 year ago?
    I also mentioned in my comment is that if you want to bring islam as whole, not just pick and chose, then you cannot do it without following the footstep of Muhammad SAW.

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    Re: Why "YES" and why "NO" to Jamaat e Islami?

    JI is the only democratic party in Pakistan. All other parties are just ruled by khandaans one after the other in the same family. No one else has the right to lead the party. JI is middle class represented, no sugar or corrupt mafias in the party unlike other parties. Party with leadership having no corruption charges. Only Imran Khan is the other example. I will recommend you to joine JI or Imran khan. I think these two parties should work together to help out Pakistan.

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    Re: Why "YES" and why "NO" to Jamaat e Islami?

    Though democratic in its nature JI never was lead by a charismatic and visionary leader. Moulana Moududi was an aalim and an intellectual but not someone who could ensue a political movement per se. The leadership of JI does not inspire and even does not seem to want to inspire. The matters have come to an extent that they have contended themselves with the role on the sidelines and there's no fire in the embers. It is tragic to see such an organized force going to waste because of the lack of leadership ability and vision !!!!!!!!!!!

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    Re: Why "YES" and why "NO" to Jamaat e Islami?

    unfortunately, i dont have too much time 2day and next two days as well. but Inshallah after that i will participate with briefly.
    Here i Just want to say that I mentioned in my comment that all these are my points and i also wrote that this was a blame on Jamiat and by their attitudes i felt it. u have right to reject it. in my college life in rawalpindi, it was only jamiat who did gunda gardy, in punjab university you can watch too many videos, that how jamiat hold and they beat professor, imran khan and how they tried to stop music classes by force.
    yes after the election a govt can legislation but in some matters govt need public support. i give you an example in uk they do refrundum in too may ways, especially when they are going to pass some laws regarding common people. if our govt did a refrundum on KPK name then matter was different. if govt do a refrendom on kala bagh dame then issue can be solved.

    Quote Originally Posted by iamamuslim View Post
    With due respect, i made topic of JI because no other political party has motto that they want to bring Islam as central role of state....

    for your criticism ,i requseted to please give reference....blame game is common in our politics because of illeterate leaders

    Taking money from USA...any reference jamaat took money and invested it in proliferation of jamaat?????

    Jamiat has guns.......can u plz reference how many of these incidents happened in 50 years of jamiat history as compared to any other political party wing...???

    i already said no body or party is perfect..i am in search of better party working for Islam...


    Hisba bill per refrundum before passing it.....????Bro if refrendum is still needed ,then what is purpose of elections????as far as i know,after winning elections ,any party can change law if it has majority because its already representing the public

    ---------- Post added at 11:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:55 PM ----------





    Bro i have been doing this for one and half year.....please elaborate if u know the best strategy ?????

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    Re: Why "YES" and why "NO" to Jamaat e Islami?

    Dear All

    I read the whole thread, it is really strange that most of Participants don’t have knowledge of Political /Islamic parties manifesto. That is the reason that we don’t have any political vision and these politician always make us fool. Why Parveez Elahi --- Monis Elahi, Shehbaz Shareef ---Hamza Shehbaz, Bhatto--BB--Zardari--Balwal…… why why Mall-Qatal-Mall
    Please see the manifesto (short term and long term), observe the leadership and then join any party. What will happen you cannot control but don’t forget you are answerable on day! May Allah guide us towards the right path Aameen.

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    Re: Why "YES" and why "NO" to Jamaat e Islami?

    Mulla slaves your worst fears have come true. Mysticreed has served his banning sentence and has morphed from deadly to deadliest !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    Re: Why "YES" and why "NO" to Jamaat e Islami?

    I think we have a very good debate going. I have been studying the Islamic movements in the modern world and I find three lines of Action throughout the world.

    1)Al-Qaeda, Taliban, Indonesian Islamic Movement, Phillipines Abu-Sayaf group etc. : These groups are quite shallow in their thought process and religious argumentation. Their motivation is based on revenge and rage which is also not acceptable in Islam and these are not recommended in any case because they have damaged the image of Islam even if they might be sincere in some cases.

    2) Hizb-AlTahrir, Tanzeem-e-Islami, Ibaad-ur-Rehmaan Lebanon, (Somewhat Tableeghi Jamaat): These groups have rejected the modern methodology of bringing change and governance, and they try to stick to the orthodox methods according to their understanding. Unfortunately, they dont enjoy reasonable support, spark, motivation and their way forward is almost endless. No prescribed method to move forward in current scenarios. Although their literary and broadcast work is very valuable, they do not pose a lifeline threat to the Anti-Islam regimes throughout the world.

    3) Jamaat-e-Islami, Ikhwaan Al Muslimoon, Justice party Turkey, Hamas Palestine, HizbULLAH Lebanon: These parties represent the mainstream Islamist movements. They have sought to fight the modern revolutionary movements with modern methods. Since democracy has brought an awakening in the recent human history and has also delivered in governance, these parties have settled to fight the Anti-Islam power centres in every field, whether it be elections, press, debates, literature, public demonstrations, organized party structures, social work etc. Their idea is that Sahaba RAT were the most able people in every field on the face of the Earth, whether it be Politics, War, foreign relations, Governance, Social services, commitment, integrity, Organization etc. So, ALLAH granted them with victory because of their ability and hardwork, commitment. And that we will not be rewarded with power unless we become better than prevailing rulers in all the fields. Jamaat-e-Islami and Ikhwaan-al-Muslimoon are the fathers of all these organizations in the world. Jamaat-e-Islami dominating the central Asia, South Asia and Far-East(like Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Burma, Malaysia, Indonesia, China, Nepal etc.) and Ikhwaan dominating the whole of Arab World.


    The parties listed above are the ones which strive to bring ALLAH's order on Earth, there are other pseudo Islamic right-winged political parties but their intent is not that clearly specied 'Iqamat-e-Deen'. The other sectarian religious parties are also not considered as Islamic movements.


    The question still remains which one to join. Certainly not the 1st group. My personal opinion is the third group because Human development is at a level that we will not be able gain power by only force and by neglecting Democracy. And why neglect democracy, if we can convince people towards Islam. Why would a person not give vote to Islam if recites the kalima of Islam. The question is the when will these movements be able to free humans from communal, sub-nationalist, criminal landlords and parties. And reflect the true picture of Islam to a common man. It certainly demands Islah of these movements as well as more participation of youth in them.

    "And we shall continue to bring our signs in-front of their visions, until it is clear to them that this certainly is AL-HAQ" (ALQUR'AN)

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    Re: Why "YES" and why "NO" to Jamaat e Islami?

    "I believe establishment of ALLAH's rule on ALLAH's land is obligatory". Why do you think that Pakistan is Allah's Land. Don't you know HE is Rabb ul Alameen? The whole universe belongs to him. Pakistan has no speciality.


    THE MULLAH-IN-CHIEF OF THE 20TH CENTURY: MAUDUDI (1903-1979)
    We will have to be brief about Maududi since he has written volumes upon volumes of nonsense. But a few glimpses should sufficiently demonstrate how the Mullah is playing god to his fans even after his death.His Name: Before presenting some glimpses of the famous Mullah Maududi’s wisdom and knowledge, let us reflect on his full name and title, Maulana Syed Abul A’la Maududi. The name translates as: “Our Master, Owner, the Father of the Most Glorious, Maududi”. It is strange that the man claiming to be a great Islamic scholar lived 76 odd years with this name. Does it need much insight to see that the very name is shrieking outright divinity and Shirk? According to the Quran, Maulana (our Master) is none but Allah (9:51). And, obviously, Al-A’la (the Most Glorious) can be none but God.

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    Re: Why "YES" and why "NO" to Jamaat e Islami?

    hi
    you are asking us for our opinion and advice for you weather you join JI or not
    i would ask you first that what made you decide to join ji what is logic and arguments you have to support this
    so plz shed some light on your thoughts about ji and im sure you studied about all other parties before making your mind up to join the ji so i would ask you that what you think about other parties too..

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    Re: Why "YES" and why "NO" to Jamaat e Islami?

    Quote Originally Posted by khalnayak View Post
    "I believe establishment of ALLAH's rule on ALLAH's land is obligatory". Why do you think that Pakistan is Allah's Land. Don't you know HE is Rabb ul Alameen? The whole universe belongs to him. Pakistan has no speciality.


    THE MULLAH-IN-CHIEF OF THE 20TH CENTURY: MAUDUDI (1903-1979)
    We will have to be brief about Maududi since he has written volumes upon volumes of nonsense. But a few glimpses should sufficiently demonstrate how the Mullah is playing god to his fans even after his death.His Name: Before presenting some glimpses of the famous Mullah Maududi’s wisdom and knowledge, let us reflect on his full name and title, Maulana Syed Abul A’la Maududi. The name translates as: “Our Master, Owner, the Father of the Most Glorious, Maududi”. It is strange that the man claiming to be a great Islamic scholar lived 76 odd years with this name. Does it need much insight to see that the very name is shrieking outright divinity and Shirk? According to the Quran, Maulana (our Master) is none but Allah (9:51). And, obviously, Al-A’la (the Most Glorious) can be none but God.
    Sorry to disappoint you but I have read this allegation in Taqi Usmani sahab's book. And he replies that Maulana is from root-word wali which means friend, so Maulana is 'my friend' when used for humans. Secondly, word 'Ali' is more superior form of Al-A'ala, but the prophet himself suggested this name for Hazrat Ali. So, these allegations are baseless and from people who have absolutely zero know-how of Arabic Grammar. I would sincerely advise you to start learning Arabic and its grammar so that we wont fall for these traps.

    Jaza'ak ALLAH

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    khalnayak is offline Junior Member
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    Re: Why "YES" and why "NO" to Jamaat e Islami?

    Quote Originally Posted by Muhammad_is_the_way View Post
    Sorry to disappoint you but I have read this allegation in Taqi Usmani sahab's book. And he replies that Maulana is from root-word wali which means friend, so Maulana is 'my friend' when used for humans. Secondly, word 'Ali' is more superior form of Al-A'ala, but the prophet himself suggested this name for Hazrat Ali. So, these allegations are baseless and from people who have absolutely zero know-how of Arabic Grammar. I would sincerely advise you to start learning Arabic and its grammar so that we wont fall for these traps.

    Jaza'ak ALLAH
    Taqi Usmani's whole mullah institution depends on teaching of Maududi so how can he not defend him? What Taqi Usmani forgot to mention was that Mullah Maududi stayed on CIA's payroll for his dirty deeds until his death in Buffalo NY.
    His Impact: The treacherous, imbecile Maududi, through his long, confused, confusing and inconclusive writings, has frozen the minds of millions of simple Muslims for the last half century making sure that the Ummah remains stuck in the spider-web of the manmade, counterfeit, Hadithi, Number Two Islam. The forsakers of the Quran got exactly what they deserved. A significant factor behind his popularity has been the generous royal Saudi support as in the case of the Egyptian Mullah-in-Chief, Syed Qutb in the 1950s.

  20. #20
    Muhammad_is_the_way's Avatar
    Muhammad_is_the_way is offline Junior Member
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    Re: Why "YES" and why "NO" to Jamaat e Islami?

    Quote Originally Posted by khalnayak View Post
    Taqi Usmani's whole mullah institution depends on teaching of Maududi so how can he not defend him? What Taqi Usmani forgot to mention was that Mullah Maududi stayed on CIA's payroll for his dirty deeds until his death in Buffalo NY.
    His Impact: The treacherous, imbecile Maududi, through his long, confused, confusing and inconclusive writings, has frozen the minds of millions of simple Muslims for the last half century making sure that the Ummah remains stuck in the spider-web of the manmade, counterfeit, Hadithi, Number Two Islam. The forsakers of the Quran got exactly what they deserved. A significant factor behind his popularity has been the generous royal Saudi support as in the case of the Egyptian Mullah-in-Chief, Syed Qutb in the 1950s.
    We were having a useful debate and I wanted to continue. Taqi Usmani sahab is a follower of Deoband and has absolutely no connection with Jamaat-e-Islami. By-the-way, your allegation to his name was also brought up first by a deobandi person so that would tell you about deobands attachment with jamaat-e-Islami. The rest of your hate speech is concocted and fabricated opinion (unsubstantiated), so I would not argue on waste.

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