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Thread: Musalman, Ger Muslim aur Kafir

      
   
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    Lightbulb Musalman, Ger Muslim aur Kafir


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    Re: Musalman, Ger Muslim aur Kafir

    Wow!! This man is a blessing in disguise for the whole Muslim community across the globe. It is people like him because of whom Islam still remains the most intellectually equipped religion in the world otherwise our bigoted lot would have ruined it beyond survival long time ago.

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    Re: Musalman, Ger Muslim aur Kafir

    What ? Because of him Islam is the most intellectually equipped religion ? I guess we were living in dark ages before him....isn't it ?

    He looks like Veena Malik part 2. Darhi bhi usi ki tarah pyari pyari hai.

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    Re: Musalman, Ger Muslim aur Kafir

    Quote Originally Posted by A-shahid View Post
    Wow!! This man is a blessing in disguise for the whole Muslim community across the globe. It is people like him because of whom Islam still remains the most intellectually equipped religion in the world otherwise our bigoted lot would have ruined it beyond survival long time ago.
    He DOES make sense on a lot of conflicting issues.
    just off the topic, if I correctly remember, you used to associate some relation to Ghamdi sb? during my Jahiliya period around 2 years back when things were quite blurred for me!

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    Re: Musalman, Ger Muslim aur Kafir

    حرف آغاز کچھ یوں ہے کہ پورے قرآن میں * غیر مسلم * کی اصطلاح کہیں استعمال نہیں ہوئ ۔ اب اگر قرآن کو اسلام کی بنیاد سمجھا جاتا ہے تو پھر اس کی دی ہوئ اصطلاحات تک اپنے آپ کو محدود کرنا ہی مسلمان ہونے کا بنیادی تقاضہ ہے۔


    قرآن نے انسانوں کو دو بڑے گروہوں میں تقسیم کیا ہے۔
    ١۔ مسلمان ۔
    ٢۔ کافر۔


    ان دو بڑے گروہوں کی مذ ید ذیلی تقسیم ہوئ ہے جیسا کہ ، مسلمان کی تقسیم مومنین، صادقین، شاہدین، ربانین، رازقین وغیرە۔


    اسی طرح کافر کی مذید ذیلی تقسیم ، منافقین، ظالمین، حاسدین، مطرفین، غاصبین وغیرە میں کی گئ ہے۔


    تھریڈ کے موضوع میں * غیر مسلم * کی تیسری اصطلاح کا اسلام میں کہیں وجود ہی نہیں۔ کوئ بھی غیر مسلم ازخود کافروں کے گروە سے تعلق رکھتا ہے۔ میںحیران ہو ں کہ مسلم، کافر اور * غیر مسلم* کا تیسرا گروە غامدی صاحب نے کس قرآن سے لیا ہے اور پھر اسے کافر بھی قرار نہیں دے رہے۔


    اگر ان کی قرآن فہمی کا یہ حال ہے کا سورە بقرە کی ابتدائ آیات بھی سامنے نہیں کہ جس میں آیت ١ تا۵ مسلمان گروە۔۔۔۔۔ آیت ٦ تا٧ کافرگروە اور پھر اس سے آگے کافروں کے خطرناک گروە منافقین کازکر ہے۔ تو پھر میں اس کے سوا کیا لکھوں کہ،


    نیم مُلا خطرە ایمان۔

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    Re: Musalman, Ger Muslim aur Kafir

    Quote Originally Posted by suave View Post
    He DOES make sense on a lot of conflicting issues.
    just off the topic, if I correctly remember, you used to associate some relation to Ghamdi sb? during my Jahiliya period around 2 years back when things were quite blurred for me!
    Lol we all go through the initial emotional fit. I used to mock and pillory IK endlessly and even had an altercation with the Socrates of the forum moazzamniaz for which I am most mortified and abashed.

    I know him personally as one my dearest cousin is a class fellow and lifelong friend of Ghamidi's daughter in law. She is a regular visitor of their family home and are quite abreast of their family politics too. Ghamidi is a gentleman through and through, always engrossed with his study and being a total aloof in the house. Neither my cousin nor the close relatives of Ghamidi realised the greatness of the man until I brought this truth home to them. I told them I was actually coming from abroad just to visit Ghamidi and this is my only stipulation for seeing them.

    I was shocked to learn when he was forced to go in self imposed exile due to consistent threats and intimidation. He now lives in Malaysia, working on his comprehension of Quran, his last remaining wish.

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    Re: Musalman, Ger Muslim aur Kafir

    Quote Originally Posted by A-shahid View Post
    Lol we all go through the initial emotional fit. I used to mock and pillory IK endlessly and even had an altercation with the Socrates of the forum @moazzamniaz for which I am most mortified and abashed.

    I know him personally as one my dearest cousin is a class fellow and lifelong friend of Ghamidi's daughter in law. She is a regular visitor of their family home and are quite abreast of their family politics too. Ghamidi is a gentleman through and through, always engrossed with his study and being a total aloof in the house. Neither my cousin nor the close relatives of Ghamidi realised the greatness of the man until I brought this truth home to them. I told them I was actually coming from abroad just to visit Ghamidi and this is my only stipulation for seeing them.

    I was shocked to learn when he was forced to go in self imposed exile due to consistent threats and intimidation. He now lives in Malaysia, working on his comprehension of Quran, his last remaining wish.

    Ahm, Ghamdi has changed my thought process a lot. The most fundamental of it, & I think in Islam also, is to be careful while dealing with others so as to not spoil any 'hakool-ul-ibaad' and hence keep on improving one's 'ikhlaaq'.
    It has been before and even now, some of my friends call him 'fitna' and I dun understand the rationale behind it. Nonetheless, I DO disagree to some of his notions, and I am on my way to dig those matters out myself. My route is very clear, first to complete translation+tafseer of Quran and then sum up all the hadiths on those matters to assess my understanding once again!
    Anyway, I am of firm belief that every muslim has to gain as much of religious knowledge himself as he can and depend on others as least as he can. Clearly, I made this belief after reading Quran where God repeatedly asks for pondering, thinking and deliberation!

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    Re: Musalman, Ger Muslim aur Kafir

    Quote Originally Posted by suave View Post
    Ahm, Ghamdi has changed my thought process a lot. The most fundamental of it, & I think in Islam also, is to be careful while dealing with others so as to not spoil any 'hakool-ul-ibaad' and hence keep on improving one's 'ikhlaaq'.
    It has been before and even now, some of my friends call him 'fitna' and I dun understand the rationale behind it. Nonetheless, I DO disagree to some of his notions, and I am on my way to dig those matters out myself. My route is very clear, first to complete translation+tafseer of Quran and then sum up all the hadiths on those matters to assess my understanding once again!
    Anyway, I am of firm belief that every muslim has to gain as much of religious knowledge himself as he can and depend on others as least as he can. Clearly, I made this belief after reading Quran where God repeatedly asks for pondering, thinking and deliberation!
    although i have never seen the shared video. but i agree with ur approach.
    hamara masla he ye ho gaya hai ke agey humain kisi ki koi baat ghalat lagti hai [auy yaqeenan ghalat ho sakti hai kroonke koi khuda ya khuda ka rasool nahi hai, sab ki apni apni understanding he] tou ham uske har baat ke mukhalif ho jatay hain. imo, yehi hamari sab se bari jahalat hai.

    on the matters of disagreement, one must do his homework [i would say hardwork]..... try to listen various scholars [of different school of thoughts] on the subject, gather all the Ahadith and Ayaats on the subject ["All" is so important ... u cannot see verse/hadith in isolation ] with different translations and tafasir ....then use what Allah SWT has blessed you i.e.ur intellect to assess and come to some the conclusion - and i fully believe that if u put sincere effort, then Allah SWT would surley guide u towards the right.

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    Re: Musalman, Ger Muslim aur Kafir

    Quote Originally Posted by yacir View Post
    although i have never seen the shared video. but i agree with ur approach.
    hamara masla he ye ho gaya hai ke agey humain kisi ki koi baat ghalat lagti hai [auy yaqeenan ghalat ho sakti hai kroonke koi khuda ya khuda ka rasool nahi hai, sab ki apni apni understanding he] tou ham uske har baat ke mukhalif ho jatay hain. imo, yehi hamari sab se bari jahalat hai.

    on the matters of disagreement, one must do his homework [i would say hardwork]..... try to listen various scholars [of different school of thoughts] on the subject, gather all the Ahadith and Ayaats on the subject ["All" is so important ... u cannot see verse/hadith in isolation ] with different translations and tafasir ....then use what Allah SWT has blessed you i.e.ur intellect to assess and come to some the conclusion - and i fully believe that if u put sincere effort, then Allah SWT would surley guide u towards the right.
    Chalain itni achi post karnay par aap ko yeh naat sunain, by none other a lady whom I consider not less than my mother....meray bachpan ki naat khuwaan:

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    Re: Musalman, Ger Muslim aur Kafir

    Quote Originally Posted by suave View Post
    Chalain itni achi post karnay par aap ko yeh naat sunain, by none other a lady whom I consider not less than my mother....meray bachpan ki naat khuwaan:
    jazakAllah ... and thanks for the naat!
    kabhi apni awaaz main bhi naat share karo

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    Re: Musalman, Ger Muslim aur Kafir

    Quote Originally Posted by yacir View Post
    jazakAllah ... and thanks for the naat!
    kabhi apni awaaz main bhi naat share karo
    lol.......sure once I am ok with sharing it with myself, i ll share with you also :p

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    Re: Musalman, Ger Muslim aur Kafir

    Quote Originally Posted by yacir View Post
    although i have never seen the shared video. but i agree with ur approach.
    hamara masla he ye ho gaya hai ke agey humain kisi ki koi baat ghalat lagti hai [auy yaqeenan ghalat ho sakti hai kroonke koi khuda ya khuda ka rasool nahi hai, sab ki apni apni understanding he] tou ham uske har baat ke mukhalif ho jatay hain. imo, yehi hamari sab se bari jahalat hai.

    on the matters of disagreement, one must do his homework [i would say hardwork]..... try to listen various scholars [of different school of thoughts] on the subject, gather all the Ahadith and Ayaats on the subject ["All" is so important ... u cannot see verse/hadith in isolation ] with different translations and tafasir ....then use what Allah SWT has blessed you i.e.ur intellect to assess and come to some the conclusion - and i fully believe that if u put sincere effort, then Allah SWT would surley guide u towards the right.
    waisay ya insani fitrat hay k jo pasand ho us ki ulti bhi sedhi lagti hay laikin aik baat humesha zayhaan nasheen rakhayn kay jahan mamla aqeeda yakeen emaan ka ajaey wahan her kisi ko sunna bhi wabal e jaan hay kion k humari apni koi ilmi hasiyat nahi aur humara miyaar kisi k sahi aur ghalat honay k mamlay may apni pasand na pasand hay.....

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    Re: Musalman, Ger Muslim aur Kafir

    Quote Originally Posted by yacir View Post
    jazakAllah ... and thanks for the naat!
    kabhi apni awaaz main bhi naat share karo
    aray wah ya konsa raz hay kay bhai humara naat bhi parh laytay hain..... suave bhaiya ab tau may bhi yacir bhai ki taaed karoon ga iss mamlay may kay ap jald koch share karain aur hum bhi faizyab hoskayn

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    Re: Musalman, Ger Muslim aur Kafir

    Quote Originally Posted by Ath3r View Post
    waisay ya insani fitrat hay k jo pasand ho us ki ulti bhi sedhi lagti hay laikin aik baat humesha zayhaan nasheen rakhayn kay jahan mamla aqeeda yakeen emaan ka ajaey wahan her kisi ko sunna bhi wabal e jaan hay kion k humari apni koi ilmi hasiyat nahi aur humara miyaar kisi k sahi aur ghalat honay k mamlay may apni pasand na pasand hay.....
    I would say that it can be rather instructive to listen to ulema (the ral ulema ofcourse :p) with differing opinions (for example, Dr Israr and Ghamdi) on matters of your interest to decide it yourself which opinion should be preferred.

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    Re: Musalman, Ger Muslim aur Kafir

    Quote Originally Posted by suave View Post
    I would say that it can be rather instructive to listen to ulema (the ral ulema ofcourse :p) with differing opinions (for example, Dr Israr and Ghamdi) on matters of your interest to decide it yourself which opinion should be preferred.
    i am really sorry but ghamdi sahab is not an alim e deen..... secondly what tool we have to judge whch opinion is suitable and which not?

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    Re: Musalman, Ger Muslim aur Kafir

    Quote Originally Posted by Ath3r View Post
    i am really sorry but ghamdi sahab is not an alim e deen..... secondly what tool we have to judge whch opinion is suitable and which not?
    lol....am sure ashahid has something to say in response to your first part.
    tool = Quran+Hadith & one's intellect!

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    Re: Musalman, Ger Muslim aur Kafir

    Quote Originally Posted by suave View Post
    lol....am sure @ashahid has something to say in response to your first part.
    tool = Quran+Hadith & one's intellect!
    ashahid mujhay janta hay aur may us ko hum dono ko pata hay kay humara difference of opinion bohaat purana aur na khatam honay wala hay filhaal.... baki dosri baat k liya baad may baat kertay hain

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    Re: Musalman, Ger Muslim aur Kafir

    Quote Originally Posted by Ath3r View Post
    waisay ya insani fitrat hay k jo pasand ho us ki ulti bhi sedhi lagti hay laikin aik baat humesha zayhaan nasheen rakhayn kay jahan mamla aqeeda yakeen emaan ka ajaey wahan her kisi ko sunna bhi wabal e jaan hay kion k humari apni koi ilmi hasiyat nahi aur humara miyaar kisi k sahi aur ghalat honay k mamlay may apni pasand na pasand hay.....
    i don not agree with ur approach .. ke jo pasand ho uski ulti bhi seedhi lagti hai.
    aap apnay baray main kahain tou aapki marzi .. mager isko general statement bana ker mujh per mat dalain!

    Andhi Taqleed ka main qail nahi hoon .. aur mery har ghalat/sahih understanding ka jawabde main khud honga Allah SWT ke huzoo ... andhi taqleed kisi tour per bhi qaabl-e-qabool nahi hai, jab ke Allah SWT ne farma diya hai ke masel ke hal ke liyay unke paas jaoo jin ke paas ilm hai AUR ager unmain ikhtilaaf pao tou QURAN/SUNNAH per palat jao [which negate the Andhi Taqleed and enourage us to ponder on QURAN and SUNNAH when it comes to disagreement]. and then u only get guidance IFF Allah wills.

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    Re: Musalman, Ger Muslim aur Kafir

    Quote Originally Posted by Ath3r View Post
    i am really sorry but ghamdi sahab is not an alim e deen..... secondly what tool we have to judge whch opinion is suitable and which not?
    as suave said .. the tool is Quran and Sahih Hadith/Sunnah PLUS your intellect. do not disrespect the intellect that Allah SWT has given u.
    as for Ghamdi ... i stated my opinion above clearly. I disagree on many issues with him .. but that does not mean there is no khair and every thing he says is unacceptable! this is the same behaviour i pointed out above .. and i find it the main reason of our decline in terms of knowledge.

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    Re: Musalman, Ger Muslim aur Kafir

    Quote Originally Posted by yacir View Post
    as @suave said .. The tool is quran and sahih hadith/sunnah plus your intellect. Do not disrespect the intellect that allah swt has given u.
    as for ghamdi ... I stated my opinion above clearly. i disagree on many issues with him .. But that does not mean there is no khair and every thing he says is unacceptable! This is the same behaviour i pointed out above .. And i find it the main reason of our decline in terms of knowledge.

    خیر اور شر، نیکی اور بدی تو تمام معاشروں میں موجود ہے پھر یہ تمام معاشروں کے نیک اعمال جنت کے حقدار کیوں نہیں؟ ایمان لانے اور مسلمان ہونے کی شرط کیوں ہے؟ نیک اعمال کے باوجود حبط اعمال کا تصور اسلام میں کیوں دیا گیا ہے؟


    ایک عالم سے اختلاف کے باوجود اس کی اچھی باتوں کو مان لینے کا معیار کیا ہوگا؟ ہر عقلمند شخص یہی کہے گا کہ اس عالم کے وعظ میں موجود اچھی بات کو مان لینا چاہئیے۔ بظاہر یہ بات صحیح لگتی ہے، لیکن قرآن اس بات کو نہیں مانتا۔ اس نے حبط اعمال کا تصور دیا ہے۔ غلط بنیاد پہ بنائ گئ شاندار عمارت کا مقدر اس کا گرنا ہوتا ہے۔ یہ اعمال کا ضائع ہونا ہوتاہے۔ تما م عمر نیک اعمال کرنے والے سے اگر ملکی قوانین سے بغاوت کا جرم ثابت ہو جاۓ تو سزاۓ موت کی سزا ملتی ہے۔ باغی کے نیک اعمال ضائع ہو جاتے ہیں۔


    اسی طرح ایک عالم کے تمام اچھے وعظ حبط اعمال کا شکار ہو جاتےہیں اگر وە اسلام کے بنیادی عقائید کو ہی نہ سمجھ سکا ہو۔ اور ان کی غلط تشریح کرتا ہو۔ غامدی صاحب کی یہی بنیادی غلطی ، جسے میں نے پکڑ کر اس کی نشاندہی کی ہے ، ان کی تمام اچھی باتوں کو بے وقعت کردیتی ہے۔ یہ غلطی ہر وە شخص پکڑ سکتا ہے جو اپنی عقل کو * قرآنی بصیرت* کے تابع رکھتا ہو۔
    قرآنی تعلیم سے ہٹ کر مسلمان اور کافر کے ساتھ ایک نیا گروە * غیر مسلم* تخلیق کرنا ہی غلط ، اس غلط بنیاد پہ دیا گیا اچھی باتوں والا وعظ ، چاہے چھ گھنٹوں پہ مشتمل ہو، حبط اعمال میں شامل ، بے وقعت۔۔۔۔۔۔۔

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